Brush settings not restored to default values

[verysame]

I'm testing this on the latest official 1.8

If I change brush to a preset that, say, uses wet edges and then I change to another brush that doesn't use wet edges, surprisingly wet edges remains activated.

Has it always been like this? Is there a way to get the brush's own settings restored when I change brush?

[HVDB Photography]

Works as expected for me.

Did you select that brush when switching to the other preset category ?

 

[verysame]

43 minutes ago, HVDB Photography said:

Works as expected for me.

Did you select that brush when switching to the other preset category ?

 

Yes, basically I select the first brush, let's say one from the Basic category and it works fine

Then I pick one from the Gouache set, in this case Smooth Textured Stroke

Now I switch back to the Basic set

[HVDB Photography]

39 minutes ago, verysame said:

Now I switch back to the Basic set

What I meant is that after switching back to the basic category, did you reselect one of the basic brushes ?

[R C-R]

6 hours ago, verysame said:

Has it always been like this? Is there a way to get the brush's own settings restored when I change brush?

I am not sure if this is related but the Assistant Manager includes a Brush tool sharing setting with 3 options.

Maybe if you set that to "No sharing between tools" you will get the behavior you want.

[verysame]

10 hours ago, HVDB Photography said:

What I meant is that after switching back to the basic category, did you reselect one of the basic brushes ?

Yes, I select a brush from the basic category - you can tell from my screenshot since in the last image the new brush stroke is different from the Gouache one used in the second img

10 hours ago, R C-R said:

I am not sure if this is related but the Assistant Manager includes a Brush tool sharing setting with 3 options.

Maybe if you set that to "No sharing between tools" you will get the behavior you want.

Hm.. I hoped you were on the right track but unfortunately it didn't work. The behavior is the same: when I switch to a brush from the basic category the wet edges is still on.

[lepr]

17 hours ago, verysame said:

I'm testing this on the latest official 1.8

If I change brush to a preset that, say, uses wet edges and then I change to another brush that doesn't use wet edges, surprisingly wet edges remains activated.

Has it always been like this? Is there a way to get the brush's own settings restored when I change brush?

1.7.3 is the same - the wet edges definition is 'Don't set wet edges' in the Basic brushes, which means the wet edges state of a tool does not get changed when one of these brushes gets picked.

If you want the Basic brushes to always set wet edges off when picked, you can edit them (double-click a Brush in the Brushes panel to open the editor) to 'Set wet edges "off"'.

 

[verysame]

39 minutes ago, anon2 said:

1.7.3 is the same - the wet edges definition is 'Don't set wet edges' in the Basic brushes, which means the wet edges state of a tool does not get changed when one of these brushes gets picked.

If you want the Basic brushes to always set wet edges off when picked, you can edit them (double-click a Brush in the Brushes panel to open the editor) to 'Set wet edges "off"'.

 

That's confusing. @HVDB Photography said that it works as expected for him.

If instead the behavior I'm experiencing is the normal behavior I don't think I'll ever use the brushes since it would take me forever to change the setting for each brush. And then for each new brush I install...

If this is by design it's really a bad decision.

[lepr]

29 minutes ago, verysame said:

That's confusing. @HVDB Photography said that it works as expected for him.

I don't think he said what he expected, though.

 

37 minutes ago, verysame said:

 it would take me forever to change the setting for each brush

It takes less than one minute to edit all of the Basic brushes and Masking brushes.

The brushes in the other categories are already defined to set wet edges to off or on instead of no change when picked.

 

[verysame]

2 hours ago, anon2 said:

I don't think he said what he expected, though.

 

It takes less than one minute to edit all of the Basic brushes and Masking brushes.

The brushes in the other categories are already defined to set wet edges to off or on instead of no change when picked.

 

You're right. The brushes in the other categories seem to not be affected by this strange behavior which still, it doesn't make sense for the basic brushes.

[R C-R]

7 minutes ago, verysame said:

You're right. The brushes in the other categories seem to not be affected by this strange behavior which still, it doesn't make sense for the basic brushes.

AFAIK, the default for the basic brushes has always been "Don't set wet edges," which means the last used brush's wetness setting will be used -- IOW, no change.

[verysame]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

AFAIK, the default for the basic brushes has always been "Don't set wet edges," which means the last used brush's wetness setting will be used -- IOW, no change.

Right, but what for? I can't understand what could be the case where switching to a basic brush one would need to override the default settings carrying over the wet edges from some other brush's setting.

It's quite confusing.

[R C-R]

7 hours ago, verysame said:

Right, but what for? I can't understand what could be the case where switching to a basic brush one would need to override the default settings carrying over the wet edges from some other brush's setting.

The default is 'no change' -- IOW, do not override whatever wet edge setting.was last used.

[verysame]

10 minutes ago, R C-R said:

The default is 'no change' -- IOW, do not override whatever wet edge setting.was last used.

What do you think that means? if it's "do not override last settings" the way it works on my end it means "last settings" on whatever brush used. Thus, if I used a brush with wet edges then switching to a basic brush which supposedly doesn't use wet edges will in fact use it.

The only way to avoid the wet edges carried over from another brush is to set the option to Set Wet edges off. So, again, the default setting for a basic brush it's confusing and leads to an unexpected behavior.

 

[carl123]

6 minutes ago, verysame said:

So, again, the default setting for a basic brush it's confusing and leads to an unexpected behavior.

The default setting for a basic brush is not to change the wet edges setting from the previous brush used.

So if wet edges was on it will remain on, if it was off it will remain off

You are overthinking a simple setting

 

[verysame]

8 minutes ago, carl123 said:

The default setting for a basic brush is not to change the wet edges setting from the previous brush used.

So if wet edges was on it will remain on, if it was off it will remain off

You are overthinking a simple setting

 

Right.

But thinking again I'm fine with the description. My original point has derailed.

The actual confusion was why the basic brushes don't reset automatically to their default settings and instead keep using wet edges???

No one has provided an answer to that yet.

[verysame]

8 hours ago, verysame said:

Right, but what for? I can't understand what could be the case where switching to a basic brush one would need to override the default settings carrying over the wet edges from some other brush's setting.

It's quite confusing.

So, the right answer to your reply should have been: why is that for the basic brushes?

[R C-R]

10 minutes ago, verysame said:

The actual confusion was why the basic brushes don't reset automatically to their default settings and instead keep using wet edges???

They are using their default settings. There are only 3 possibilities: keep using whatever wet edge setting you last used (which may or may not be to use wet edges), turn wet edges on, & turn wet edges off.

The latter two are resets; the first is not.

[verysame]

7 hours ago, R C-R said:

They are using their default settings. There are only 3 possibilities: keep using whatever wet edge setting you last used (which may or may not be to use wet edges), turn wet edges on, & turn wet edges off.

The latter two are resets; the first is not.

The whole point of this thread was why the basic brushes keep using wet edges when in their default settings they don't make use of wet edges.

In fact, the other brushes in other categories revert to their default settings just fine, except for the basic brushes (see @anon2 reply above)

I guess your confusion is semantic. What a default setting is. In other words, a basic brush doesn't start with a wet edges on when used the first time. I know it may sounds confusing but don't think in terms of how the brush has been set-up for you in the preferences but how the brush works when you use it first the first time and the way it then behaves the next time after you used other brushes with the wet edges on. That should help clarify the confusion.

Why they decided (the devs) to have that option different from other categories is what I was trying to figure out. It could very well be a glitch, they just made it that way by mistake. If that's the case, it would be good to change it in the next releases.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, verysame said:

The whole point of this thread was why the basic brushes keep using wet edges when in their default settings they don't make use of wet edges.

Their default setting (the setting they ship with) is to neither set wet edges to "on" nor to "off" but instead to use whatever the current edge wetness setting is, exactly as "Don't set wet edges" says.

They are not unique in using this as the default. For example, the Masking category also uses "Don't set wet edges." If you have installed the Daub Blender, Daub Mosaic, or several other optional brush categories from third party vendors (including some from other users) they also do not set wet edges.

The wet edges settings are no different from other user settable preferences in that they ship with a default setting. If you prefer another setting, you can simply change the setting to a different one, including mixing & matching that setting within a brush category or even duplicating a category so you can have one that always sets wetness to off & anther that always sets it to on.

If you are asking why specifically they decided to use the 'don't set' preference for the Basic category (or alternately why they decided to use the 'set to on' or 'set to off' for most of the others) I assume it is because they had to choose one of the 3 possible choices as the default & since 'don't set' does not change the current setting, it would be convenient when users have been painting with a different brush (which do not forget currently could have wet edges set to on or off regardless of its default) & do not want edge wetness to change if they switch to a basic brush for touchup or other work.

Obviously, not all users will always want the Basic (or any other) brushes to do that, but the same can be said for any other user settable option or preference. That is why they are adjustable to begin with.

[verysame]

@R C-R

In their default settings the wet edges mode is off (take a look at the top bar with the tool properties).

When I as a user start using the basic brush I get a particular result. If this result changes the next time because I've used a different brush which affected the basic brush, as a user I'm only confused. The software decided for me how the brush has to behave changing the result I got the first time and from a UX pov is just wrong. If I want this behavior to happen then I can change that particular preference.

Why the preference is "Don't set wet edges" for the basic brushes and different for other brushes? It's either inconsistent or not clear.

You're fine with two different preferences for different categories without explaining why?

And you don't see any inconsistency in this choice?

[walt.farrell]

2 hours ago, verysame said:

In their default settings the wet edges mode is off (take a look at the top bar with the tool properties).

No. Their default "wet edges" setting for those brushes is "whatever the user last used". You can see that if you look at the brush details.

It's a capability the program has. I cannot really explain why the Basic brushes are set that way, except that I would find it annoying if I picked a Basic brush, decided I wanted wed edges, turned  it on, and then decided I wanted a different Basic brush and found my wet edges setting being turned off.

So, for those brushes, I think it's an appropriate choice for the developers to have made. But only they would know the reason they made that choice.

 

[verysame]

39 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

No. Their default "wet edges" setting for those brushes is "whatever the user last used". You can see that if you look at the brush details.

It's a capability the program has. I cannot really explain why the Basic brushes are set that way, except that I would find it annoying if I picked a Basic brush, decided I wanted wed edges, turned  it on, and then decided I wanted a different Basic brush and found my wet edges setting being turned off.

So, for those brushes, I think it's an appropriate choice for the developers to have made. But only they would know the reason they made that choice.

 

So what do you call the default wet edge state for a basic brush? Not a setting?

You should take a look at this:

https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expanded/dp/0465050654

Those basic principle of good design are pure gold.

I ask again: are you people OK with inconsistency?

Your explanation is lacking consistency too. You are fine with the choice made for the basic brushes where the wet edges is carried over, but then what about the other brushes where this doesn't apply?

[R C-R]

8 minutes ago, verysame said:

So what do you call the default wet edge state for a basic brush? Not a setting?

The default setting is no change, don't change, use last used, or whatever else you want to call it, but is a setting, just like set to on or set to off.

There is no inconsistency, just one more choice than the simplest two-state, on or off no-matter-what one. You can set any pixel brush to any one of the 3 wet edge choices you want, whatever best suits your workflow. It will not be the same for every user or every workflow. In this respect it is no different from the Assistant Manager options, the Move Tool Aspect Constrain options, or any other user-settable preference.

They are all there so you can set those things to whatever you prefer, just as other users can set them to whatever they prefer.

[verysame]

@R C-R

I see you're avoiding to answer my questions. Fine 😉