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On 6/12/2020 at 3:28 PM, emarillo said:

No, I don't need them. My clients ask me the .indd files only for archiving purposes, so IDML exported documents would equally do.

Personally I would inform them that you are not using Indesign so files for archival purposes may not be a great thing as the files will not open perfectly in Indesign. You could save a lot of headaches supplying only print ready PDF's if they accept that your IDML files will most likely not give them a file that will allow them to perfectly reproduce without some reformatting in Indesign. 

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I can't supply only print ready PDFs. Long story short: some projects of mine need to be re-edited in foreign Countries.
I myself often receive .idml files from my clients: they have to be adapted to the Italian market, so a certain amount of work is equally needed in order to adjust the original layouts. The same goes for whoever received my files. 
The ability to export in .idml from Publisher would absolutely be the right feature for my needs. 
 

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14 minutes ago, emarillo said:

I myself often receive .idml files from my clients: they have to be adapted to the Italian market, so a certain amount of work is equally needed in order to adjust the original layouts. The same goes for whoever received my files. 

When we are short on manpower and time and need to send files to be done externally, we expect the returned file to be usable, as in opening it, correcting some typo and exporting a new PDF in a blink.

That's why we ensure first people works with the same software. If de were provided with unusable files, we would stop working with them.

Transparency is really important.

For APub to be able to export to IDML, they'll have a lot of works to do, like exporting linked/embedded images or PDF to flattened files other apps can read, for example.

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47 minutes ago, Wosven said:

When we are short on manpower and time and need to send files to be done externally, we expect the returned file to be usable, as in opening it, correcting some typo and exporting a new PDF in a blink.

That's why we ensure first people works with the same software. If de were provided with unusable files, we would stop working with them.

Transparency is really important.

For APub to be able to export to IDML, they'll have a lot of works to do, like exporting linked/embedded images or PDF to flattened files other apps can read, for example.

I'm afraid I wasn't clear enough. The client I'm speaking of needs above all the hi-res PDFs and (sometimes) the .indd files. He asks me to save them in .indd and above all in .idml, 'cause the files themselves could subsequently be opened on the other side of the globe (they have several foreign branches), by a person that uses another version of InDesign, maybe another operating system, even - as far I could know - Affinity Publisher instead of Adobe InDesign. It therefore would make really no difference if I submitted not-so-perfect .idml files. 
On the other hand I absolutely agree with you: files that have to travel back and forth between my studio and one or more external contributors must always remain in the exact same InDesign version. 

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26 minutes ago, emarillo said:

to save them in .indd and above all in .idml, 'cause the files themselves could subsequently be opened on the other side of the globe (they have several foreign branches), by a person that uses another version of InDesign, maybe another operating system

We are in this case, using different OS and version of ID, that why we ask to not forget the IDML in the archives, and a PDF to check visually, some effect existing in only some ID recent versions (sometimes,  INDD files can be corrupted or bugged, and usually IDML can open without problems). But the files need to be usable on first opening without spending hours debuging or correcting errors.

It's possible to work around different versions of the same apps, more difficult with different apps. We use heavily variables and GREP in paragraph styles, all of this would be lost opening the files in Apub, and people opening those files in APub would spend time doing manually what is automatically done in another app.

Worste, if opening the file in APub result in a completely wrong file since those GREP or variables are lost, it would be the ability of the people working on the file that would be first be questioned when receiving and checking the file for archiving (people don't know how to archive and forget some linked files sometime), not the app used. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Wosven said:

It's possible to work around different versions of the same apps, more difficult with different apps. We use heavily variables and GREP in paragraph styles,

 

This wouldn't be a problem. While the hi-res PDFs we provide are printed in Italy, for the Italian market, in the native .idml files our Italian texts are usually wiped out and replaced with those of the Country of destination 🙂
Again: the .idml export feature would be a great addendum for my specific workflow. While I'm aware that there are lots of different environments where a so-so conversion simply wouldn't be acceptable. 
 

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2 hours ago, emarillo said:

This wouldn't be a problem. While the hi-res PDFs we provide are printed in Italy, for the Italian market, in the native .idml files our Italian texts are usually wiped out and replaced with those of the Country of destination 🙂
Again: the .idml export feature would be a great addendum for my specific workflow. While I'm aware that there are lots of different environments where a so-so conversion simply wouldn't be acceptable. 
 

That sounds exactly like an environment where that conversation would be a headache. Unless the artwork is super basic, ie boxes with a stroke and just plain text, you are going to have issues. You could have all sorts of issues with transparencies, drop shadows and other things. Anyways I feel like I am just saying the same thing over and over. If it works for you great! Not something I could use or would be something I would want to depend on. 

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There is no need for IDML or INDD export at all, since Affinity will become industry standard very soon.


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You may laugh, byt I'm deadly serious.


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10 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

You may laugh, byt I'm deadly serious.

I would laugh as the idea of Affinity replacing Adobe at this stage of the game anytime soon is ludicrous. If a change will happen it will be a gradual change, there will be no sudden stop and everyone switches to Affinity which does less at the moment and works differently which will slow production down for most people as they have to figure out the Affinity way of doing things.

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3 minutes ago, wonderings said:

I would laugh as the idea of Affinity replacing Adobe at this stage of the game anytime soon is ludicrous.

If all Affinity users live with this idea in their minds all the time, it will happen much faster. Don't underestimate the power of the Subconscious Mind.


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1 minute ago, Petar Petrenko said:

If all Affinity users live with this idea in their minds all the time, it will happen much faster. Don't underestimate the power of the Subconscious Mind.

Petar,

Do you use APub 100% of the time? No? Why?

I create a fair few price lists. These are handed over in either Excel spreadsheets or databases (typically Access but not always). It takes about 40 seconds to generate it in Q. It would be a day-long job in APub.

I create non public-facing posters for a couple of hospitals. Again, the data comes from a database. Charts and text and AI files. Again, mere seconds to generate each poster (average 10 master posters per hospital). I have no idea what each master would take by hand in APub and am not interested to find out. I reckon at least one-third to one-half a day each.

For a simple book, I can go from a decently to well-formatted Word document to a ready to print pdf in half a day--and sometimes less--if it simply lays out nicely. I've done a few books in APub. No comparison.

I could go on.

APub isn't ready for a production shop. Not mine anyway.

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9 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

If all Affinity users live with this idea in their minds all the time, it will happen much faster. Don't underestimate the power of the Subconscious Mind.

Affinity is not on par with Adobe for features. Why would anyone give up Indesign for Publisher when Publisher does far less, cannot do PDF passthrough, data merge, plus  many other things for software that does not? There is no "believe in yourself and anything is possible" here. No matter how much you want to believe it, Publisher is not a replacement for Indesign in most pro environments. Yes there will be some places where they can get by on this, but they will be the exception. 

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9 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Petar,

Do you use APub 100% of the time? No? Why?

I create a fair few price lists. These are handed over in either Excel spreadsheets or databases (typically Access but not always). It takes about 40 seconds to generate it in Q. It would be a day-long job in APub.

I create non public-facing posters for a couple of hospitals. Again, the data comes from a database. Charts and text and AI files. Again, mere seconds to generate each poster (average 10 master posters per hospital). I have no idea what each master would take by hand in APub and am not interested to find out. I reckon at least one-third to one-half a day each.

For a simple book, I can go from a decently to well-formatted Word document to a ready to print pdf in half a day--and sometimes less--if it simply lays out nicely. I've done a few books in APub. No comparison.

I could go on.

APub isn't ready for a production shop. Not mine anyway.

Mike,

Don't get me wrong but I was not asking for an answer to my thought.

Your post must be addressed to the Affinity team so they can resolve the problems with the software. Every users opinion is very precious for them and something like this that come from an experienced user is very valuable. So, IMO you must go on and "put on paper" all your problems you have and motivate them to make our favorite apps to be even better. I would like to hear what other problems you have, too.


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Hi Petar, 

I don't have problems running or using APub per se.

In all but the book example above, it is simply a lack in capabilities. No merge, no means of automation. No plugin architecture. 

The book example also an example of lack of capabilities, but also of how it simply works. 

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Since Serif is working on the Publisher workbook, testing it against a complex publication, and considered the speed at which they have been progressing during these few years, I bet APub 2.0 will be ready for production, and will be within one year.

Paolo

 

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1 hour ago, PaoloT said:

Since Serif is working on the Publisher workbook, testing it against a complex publication, and considered the speed at which they have been progressing during these few years, I bet AfPub 2.0 will be ready for production, and will be within one year.

Maybe. Unless Serif "gave up" using APub as was the original plan for creating the APub workbook and used PagePlus like the other workbooks...though even if that does/did happen, the attempt will point out certain shortcomings.

Really, Serif needs to have an employee with a breadth of experience in ID/QXP to work with APub day after day after day and is good at communication to/with their boss(es) to aid in developing a comprehensive plan for moving forward on features--and even how those features should work. I want Serif to succeed. I want APub to be best in class. I want Petar's wish to come true.

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9 hours ago, wonderings said:

Affinity is not on par with Adobe for features. Why would anyone give up Indesign for Publisher when Publisher does far less, cannot do PDF passthrough, data merge, plus  many other things for software that does not? There is no "believe in yourself and anything is possible" here. No matter how much you want to believe it, Publisher is not a replacement for Indesign in most pro environments. Yes there will be some places where they can get by on this, but they will be the exception. 

Fore sure, Affinity Suite, non of the apps on desktop is near Adobe CC if we talk features, but, a matter of facts, a little OT, but, on the iPad it’s the opposite, when Affinity Photo on iPad is almost on pair with the desktop version, Photoshop for iPad lacks almost everything from Photoshop on Mac/Windows!

Affinity Suite is still young on the market, have a low cost one time purchase, and can do a lot, but, I think many users here have too much demands on this software just now...

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7 hours ago, MikeW said:

Really, Serif needs to have an employee with a breadth of experience in ID/QXP to work with APub day after day after day and is good at communication to/with their boss(es) to aid in developing a comprehensive plan for moving forward on features--and even how those features should work. I want Serif to succeed. I want APub to be best in class. I want Petar's wish to come true.

I don't agree with Affinity team that the apps are made "by designers, for designers". If it was true then they would take care for speeding the workflow not only how apps deal with processors' cores. Maybe icons are made by designer(s), but the workspace is certainly not. They definitely need someone with experience for this kind of work.


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Until two months ago I had three active InDesign CC licenses. Now I have 2 IDD active licenses and three perpetual licenses of Publisher, which I'm starting to use for the works that don't need all of the IDD features. So:

May 2020
Mac 1 -> InDesign
Mac 2 -> InDesign
Mac 3 -> InDesign

July 2020
Mac 1 -> InDesign + AFP
Mac 2 -> InDesign + AFP
Mac 3 -> AFP

It'll be a not so quick transition, but until now I'm perfectly satisfied with AFP (and I plan to gradually use it to fully replace INDD).
Go, Serif, go (not a big fan of Adobe, I admit).

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On 7/3/2020 at 3:33 AM, emarillo said:

Until two months ago I had three active InDesign CC licenses. Now I have 2 IDD active licenses and three perpetual licenses of Publisher, which I'm starting to use for the works that don't need all of the IDD features. So:

May 2020
Mac 1 -> InDesign
Mac 2 -> InDesign
Mac 3 -> InDesign

July 2020
Mac 1 -> InDesign + AFP
Mac 2 -> InDesign + AFP
Mac 3 -> AFP

It'll be a not so quick transition, but until now I'm perfectly satisfied with AFP (and I plan to gradually use it to fully replace INDD).
Go, Serif, go (not a big fan of Adobe, I admit).

Would love to be free of the rental situation that is Adobe, good that you can widdle that down a bit!

The idea though of perpetual licenses for any active business that is staying current is not that much different than a subscription. Pre Adobe CC I would upgrade every 2 years. There was 1 time I can remember where I upgraded earlier because a client updated and needed to be able to work with their files. It certainly seems to have a cascade effect.

When V2 comes out for Affinity and the majority of people update I am assuming we will be in pre Adobe CC world where people are using different versions which can lead to different headaches. Thankfully the price is not all that steep in order to keep current. 

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