Irrationales Verhalten bei Copy & Paste

[Chris B]

36 minutes ago, Oval said:

and many other basics that are still missing since years

Would you happen to have a list somewhere so I can point the documentation team in its direction? They can then go through and flesh out what they feel is missing from the Help. 

[Oval]

14 minutes ago, Chris B said:

a list somewhere

Sorry, no list. When 1.8 is available then we will check if the missing information is still missing. There is no beta help online, right?

[Christian S.]

This topic attracted me only because of the German title.

I don't find the current behaviour illogical. It is in line with e. g. the behaviour on a shape layer. 

(For adjustments and live filter layers the copy is created with a mask, which is also good but probably not what was asked for here.)

As a new feature request there could be a new assistant option to rasterise a layer automatically when someone tries to copy a part of it. It behaves this way today when you try to paint on an image layer.

Regards,
Christian.

PS: "Make it work the same as in Photoshop" is not an argument.

[Chris B]

3 minutes ago, Oval said:

Sorry, no list. When 1.8 is available then we will check if the missing information is still missing. There is no beta help online, right?

Correct. Usually, any new help articles will go through a sanity check and will be available in the software release. Either way, anything that you feel is missing should be reported and will be very much appreciated. 

[Sunny Burnett]

18 minutes ago, Christian S. said:

PS: "Make it work the same as in Photoshop" is not an argument.

You're right, it's not. But that is an argument: Photoshop is the standard photo application in the professional field. Affinity products are also aimed at professional users. If Affinity Adobe ever wants to lose significant market share, the products must be at least as good as Adobe's products in the medium and long term. However, it would be better if they were better than Adobe products.

I don't see that at the moment. On the contrary, I see tons of potential and room for improvement in all Affinity applications. Affinity would do well to take customers' opinions seriously, instead of dismissing suggestions and bug reports as unimportant.
I hate Adobe! This company has bought and screwed up or screwed up several good products over the past twenty years. Last year alone I reported about ten new bugs to Abobe, of which only one has been fixed so far.
That's why I support Affinity. I have now bought the entire collection for the second time, first for the Mac, then for Windows.
I am already writing my new book in Publisher instead of Indesign. But if important basics, such as opening RAW images (DNG) do not improve quickly, I will probably have to work with Adobe products again.
I understand that not everything can be perfect right from the start. And I also see a lot of great features at Affinity. But Affinity is not yet good enough for serious work under time pressure.

[Sunny Burnett]

21 minutes ago, Christian S. said:

As a new feature request there could be a new assistant option to rasterise a layer automatically when someone tries to copy a part of it.

Aber genau das ist doch der Punkt! Wenn es sich um ein Pixelbild handelt, muss es nicht erst gerastert werden. Es besteht doch schon aus Pixeln. Man muss doch nur die Pixel, die sich innerhalb der Auswahl befinden, in den Zwischenspeicher kopieren und in eine neue Ebene einfügen.

[walt.farrell]

2 minutes ago, Sunny Burnett said:

Aber genau das ist doch der Punkt! Wenn es sich um ein Pixelbild handelt, muss es nicht erst gerastert werden. Es besteht doch schon aus Pixeln. Man muss doch nur die Pixel, die sich innerhalb der Auswahl befinden, in den Zwischenspeicher kopieren und in eine neue Ebene einfügen.

But the point is that it is not a pixel image. It may have started that way, but Serif has chosen to make it an (Image) layer, which is a kind of vector layer with advantages over a (Pixel) layer. As a vector layer, the pixels are not accessible; you would need to rasterize the vector layer to make the pixels usable.

[Sunny Burnett]

Okay, so Affinity puts the pixel image in some form of container made of vectors, right?
Maybe that's the wrong way to go. I like to repeat myself again: Photoshop also uses containers that keep the state of the object instead of rasterizing them immediately. There they are called Smart Objects.
Nevertheless, you can make a selection and copy there if the pixels are concerned. Maybe Affinity should see how Adobe does it.
Otherwise, I could also accept Christian's suggestion that an assistant take care of the problem silently in the background. The main thing is that it is somehow solved, because it cannot stay the way it is now. The same applies in the software industry as in marketing: great marketing tricks don't work if you have to explain them. Or in programming language: software features are poorly designed if they don't work intuitively and you have to explain them.

[PaulEC]

18 minutes ago, Sunny Burnett said:

... the products must be at least as good as Adobe's products ...

Being "as good as" does not necessarily mean doing everything in exactly the same way. 

I really don't see the problem with just rasterising the image layer if you need to, it's just a couple of clicks, or you can add a keyboard shortcut to make it even quicker. 😉

[Sunny Burnett]

1 minute ago, PaulEC said:

Being "as good as" does not necessarily mean doing everything in exactly the same way. 

I really don't see the problem with just rasterising the image layer if you need to, it's just a couple of clicks, or you can add a keyboard shortcut to make it even quicker. 😉

Yes, there are many ways to reach the stars. But do you want to explain to anyone who comes to AP from any other image processing program and stumbles across the same problem because they are used to it in almost all applications, including Firefox, Word, Audition, etc., that it is now solved differently with AP is? (I hope that the last sentenses make any sense, because it's translated bei Google)

[MEB]

Hi Sunny Burnett,
Welcome to Affinity Forums
No, Image layers have nothing todo with vectors layers. You can look at them as objects (or containers if you prefer) which hold the original image data (being it pasted on placed in the document). You can't edit them directly at a pixel level, only perform basic transforms (scale, rotations etc) and change them through indirect means (live filters adjustments etc). If you want to edit them directly you have to rasterise them first (they are rasterised using document's dpi) so they are converted to pixel layers - these are the ones directly comparable to regular layers in Photoshop - which can be selected and edited at a pixel level as you are used to. I understand your points regarding the possibility to copy/paste directly from image layers and passed these to the dev team for comments. We will get back to you as soon as we have some feedback.

[Sunny Burnett]

Thank you, MEB!

[MEB]

Hi @Sunny Burnett, all,
We already got some feedback from the dev team. The ability to copy/paste selections directly from Image layers was logged as an improvement and we will try to implement it during this beta cycle before Photo's 1.8 official release. Thank you all for your feedback.

[Sunny Burnett]

Oh, very good! That is what I'm missing at Adobe: The possibility to influence the positive development of the software. Thanks and best regards to the development team.

[Oval]

6 hours ago, Sunny Burnett said:

The possibility to influence the positive development

Danke, Berlin! Angesichts des Gegenwinds in Form von unlogischer Logik (»es ist kein Pixel-Bild«) hatten wir kaum gehofft, dass letztlich die Usability hier entgegen aller starrer Programmiererdenke gewinnt. Offenbar haben Sie, lieber Sunny Burnett, den richtigen Ton getroffen. Ein guter Tag für User! Vielleicht lag es ein bisschen am Palindromtag 02022020.

[Sunny Burnett]

2 hours ago, Oval said:

Danke, Berlin!

Gern geschehen! Am liebsten würde ich zu Affinity reisen und mal vor Ort zeigen, was ich alles verbessern würde. Wenn man den Entwicklern zeigt, wie Fotografen und Grafiker arbeiten, wird vielleicht eher klar, warum manche Dinge, so wie sie jetzt sind, nicht so gut gelöst sind. Ich habe schon mal vor einigen Monaten eine lange Liste mit Verbesserungsvorschlägen hingeschickt und bin gespannt, welche es in die nächste Version geschafft haben.