Allow node tool to select control points of shapes and text fields

[gafvert]

I'm used to working in illustrator where the direct selection tool makes it super easy to select for edges or parts of multiple objects (for example a number of graphical shapes and text boxes). I'm trying to switch over to Affinity Designer, but it's very time consuming and frustrating to me that the corresponding node select tool in Designer (1.7.3) works so differently. Here are a few improvements/changes that would really help me out working with Designer:

- Allow node tool to draw up a selection box and select all nodes/control points in that box. Seems basic enough, and consistent with the regular selection tool, but currently you first have to select the objects you want to be able to select nodes of, adding multiple clicks for each selection operation.

- Allow node tool to be select control points of simple shapes (like circles, rectangles etc). Currently you have to first convert them to curves, which adds additional steps and frustration (especially until you figure out why you can't select them at all before converting them)

- Allow node tool to select edges/corners of text boxes, or baseline origin points of artistic text. Currently it doesn't seem like you can select the edges or control points of text boxes at all, which makes it very hard to work with layouts where you combine a lot of text fields with graphics and boxes.

[fde101]

On 1/23/2020 at 10:11 AM, gafvert said:

currently you first have to select the objects you want to be able to select nodes of

I see this as a good thing because if you have multiple overlapping objects and want to reshape only a few of them it makes it easier to avoid selecting the control points of objects you don't want to manipulate.  I can see benefit to the behavior you are suggesting as well though, so perhaps a button could be added to the context toolbar to toggle between these two behaviors?

 

On 1/23/2020 at 10:11 AM, gafvert said:

Allow node tool to be select control points of simple shapes (like circles, rectangles etc). Currently you have to first convert them to curves, which adds additional steps and frustration

Shapes in the Affinity products are special - they are not normal bézier paths the way they are in Illustrator and the like, but rather a completely different type of object.  You can already use the node tool and reshape them to the extent that they can be reshaped while still keeping them as their own special type of object; to go beyond that you need to first use "Convert to Curves" to make them into path objects.  Then you can distort them as you seem to want.

There is benefit to keeping them as shape objects however, as there are additional control points you can use to manipulate them (such as adding points to a star or controlling its inside radius; you can turn a gear into a flower, etc.) and this flexibility is lost when the shape is converted to a curve, which is why that does not happen automatically, and should not happen automatically in the Affinity products.  I strongly disagree with what you are asking for on this point.

 

On 1/23/2020 at 10:11 AM, gafvert said:

select edges/corners of text boxes

Text boxes are generally built on the shape objects (or on a closed path object), and the node tool allows you to modify the underlying shape/path in roughly the same manner as if they were not acting as text boxes.  I'm not sure offhand if there is a way to "convert to curves" the shape behind a text box without impacting the text in that box, and I don't have it in front of me right now to play with it and figure that out...  if you haven't created the text box yet, you can create it as a path then convert that into a text box, so that you can reshape it later the way you are suggesting.

[JET_Affinity]

17 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Shapes in the Affinity products...are not normal bézier paths the way they are in Illustrator and the like…there are additional control points you can use to manipulate them…

Correct.

First, I'm not particularly enamored with Affinity's selection interface, either. But...

Illustrator has been embarrassingly devoid of geometrically functional "shape primitives" for most of its history. Its shape tools created nothing but basic Bezier paths. With all its marketing ballyhoo about 'live effects' it couldn't, for example, even adjust the corner radii of a rounded rectangle because there was no actual rounded rectangle object; as soon as it was drawn and deselected, it was just an ordinary eight segment path. Same thing for its polygon, star, and ellipse tools. And I'm talking all the way through version CS6, the last version before Adobe's customer-abusive subscription-only licensing scheme.

It is powerfully useful, for example, to be able to set (and change) the start and end angles of an ellipse in technical illustration. For the vast majority of its history, Illustrator couldn't do that, despite the fact that even the hobbyist level drawing modules in some 'works' or 'office'  applications could.

JET

[gafvert]

Hello, thank you for your replies, but I think you misunderstand what I'm asking for. I know the Affinity control points are not simple bezier spline nodes, and there may be time when this is beneficial. I also understand that since it's such a fundamental part of their design that's unlikely to change. What I'm asking for is to be able to select and edit these "special" control points as well using the node tool, just like you can edit curve points. As you currently cannot (see illustration) the only way to do this is to convert the shapes, which is frustrating/confusing and what I would like to avoid. For text frames I haven't found any way to do it as the "convert to curves" for a text frame converts the text to outlines, and not the text frame.

As for the "Isolation mode" of having to first select a shape before being able to select the nodes in it I agree that this if useful sometimes like you say. However, the current behavior could be retained when you have something selected with no change and still add what I was asking for: letting the user draw up a selection rectangle that can select nodes in any shape when you don't have anything selected. Currently trying to click and drag with the node tool if you have nothing selected does nothing at all.

[fde101]

1 hour ago, gafvert said:

the current behavior could be retained when you have something selected with no change and still add what I was asking for: letting the user draw up a selection rectangle that can select nodes in any shape when you don't have anything selected

that could work...

[gafvert]

Just updated to 1.8.0 and there has been a slight change to the node tool: Now when you have nothing selected and click and drag with the node tool you do get a selection box (which is a good addition!) however, it just seems to work like the Move too selection box and doesn't actually allow you to select nodes (which is a little confusing, why have a selection box for nodes that doesn't select nodes?). Instead it just selects entire shapes so you can then click and drag again to select their nodes (if you've converted them to curves). Still can't seem to select control points or edges of text frames though. So the requests at the top all remain relevant I think.

[JET_Affinity]

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Allow node tool to draw up a selection box and select all nodes/control points in that box.

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I think you misunderstand what I'm asking for.

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What I'm asking for is to be able to select and edit these "special" control points as well using the node tool, just like you can edit curve points.

It would not make sense to be able to marquee select (quote 1) the parameter handles of live shape objects (quote 3), because those handles do different things for different kinds of live shapes.

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As you currently cannot (see illustration) the only way to do this is to convert the shapes, which is frustrating/confusing and what I would like to avoid.

It's standard-fare in any drawing program that provides live shape objects with adjustable parameters to have to "break apart," "ungroup", "expand", "convert to path", etc., those objects before being able to directly manipulate their individual Bezier nodes and handles.

Again, I'm not enamored with Affinity's selection scheme either. I think it needs serious re-work, especially in regards to the overdone dependency upon bounding boxes. My complaint with the basic selection interface actually starts at the ground level question of why a drawing program needs two separate selection tools in the first place. (As a long-time FreeHand user, I know experientially that its single selection tool was both more efficient and more powerful than the now 'de facto standard' of having two separate selection tools, and all the caveats stemming from that. But that ship has, unfortunately, sailed.)

But the quotes above are what I'm reading your meaning from. Suppose, for example, the box object in your video were a live star object. It wouldn't make sense for a marquee selection to select enclosed nodes of a text frame, enclosed nodes of a basic path, and one of the parameter handles of the star object. Nor would it make sense for enclosed nodes of actual star-shaped path to be selected, because the positions of those nodes are programmatically determined by the parameter adjustments; you'd be "breaking" the behavior of the live object. That's why all programs with such constructs require you to deliberately de-construct them to more basic objects.

JET

[sbg]

Perhaps you need to convert the shape to curves...