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Disappointed. No Multiple text columns in the next future?


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I love AD, but I can't believe that Affinity Designer has not yet implemented Multiple columns of text yet in its beta 1.8. It is a basic implementation for a "designer"

Will we have to wait for version 2.0 to be able to work professionally with AD or will it continue to be a complementary tool for Adobe software?

Don't tell me that Publisher has this ability that I already know the story.

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1 hour ago, Cuando said:

Don't tell me that Publisher has this ability that I already know the story.

But that is likely to be the only answer, as Serif has chosen what tools and capabilities will be exposed in each of their products.

If multiple columns is all that is keeping you on Adobe, why not buy Publisher? It's inexpensive, and it would enable you to move away from the more expensive Adobe products. Also, with Publisher you gain other features that may be helpful (pinning images, automatic hyphenation, and more) as well as a very nice workflow between Publisher and Designer using the StudioLink function.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

But that is likely to be the only answer, as Serif has chosen what tools and capabilities will be exposed in each of their products.

But that is not the right answer for my needs, why hire a tailor if you just want to sew a button?

1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

If multiple columns is all that is keeping you on Adobe, why not buy Publisher?

Who said I don't have Publisher?

We are not demanding advanced capacity of text blocks as in Publisher for editorial projects. It's something as basic as editing text blocks.

This ability in AD will not subtract the purchase in Publisher. My point of view is that it will gain more users to Affinity applications and its workflow philosophy.

5 years ago when I bought my first Affinity product (AD), I thought it would be the future. At this moment I don't know ... I still have hope.

 

 

 

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There is a difference between which features we think might be great to have in two or more of the Applications and what Serif think makes more sense for their business. I know, I'd like to have this too in Designer (as well as the Pages Panel), but I don't think we can convince them.

Best regards!

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3 hours ago, Cuando said:

Who said I don't have Publisher?

Sorry; I inferred that (incorrectly) as you seemed to be saying that Designer is only for supplementing Adobe if it doesn't have that function.

I was pointing out that it's not true. One needs to look at the combination of products (Photo, Designer, and Publisher) and the complementary functions that they provide, and the benefits of StudioLink. One should not look at the products in isolation and compare to Adobe products, as the functions are partitioned differently among the Affinity products than Adobe has done with their products.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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3 hours ago, Mithferion said:

don't think we can convince them

Why not? If we find the right arguments … perhaps like this one: People are disappointed … like Cuando because they thought they will get all tools in ADe to create one single poster.

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17 minutes ago, Oval said:

People are disappointed

Not a good reason, in my opinion, as someone will always be disappointed.

Photo users want Text on a Path (a Designer and Publisher function). Also the Appearance panel to control multiple strokes/fills. Also vector brushes. Also ....

Designer users want multiple-columns, automatic-hyphenation, Find/Replace, ....

Edited to add: Publisher users want the Photo and Designer functions that are missing from the Publisher Personas to be available to them without having to use Edit in Photo or Edit in Designer.

If Serif were to provide all the functions in each application they end up with one monolithic application (except insofar as Personas allow some segregation), which isn't what Serif wants to market. And they believe that the segregation helps keep the UI cleaner. And the monolithic application would have to cost 3x as much as the individual applications.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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11 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Not a good reason, in my opinion, as someone will always be disappointed.

5 years waiting = disappointed

I understand what you mean, in fact I have a long wish list for Affinity applications. But I am consistent in my wishes and I do not claim to Affinity a trip to Mars. We are talking about something as basic as columns of text in a program called "Designer".

 

 

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

Not a good reason

Of course, because we have real arguments:

dsgdsadfbsdgf.jpg.f2fa4ca7e1ec9a26bede7b5f98f77d21.jpg

:)

So if somebody wants to create posters or body copy, he should not buy ADe.

Serif: “frames of text for body copy”. So this tool is incomplete since beginning and has nothing to do with

a pseudo-argument “Photo users want Text on a Path, the Appearance panel, vector brushes”

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46 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Sorry; I inferred that (incorrectly) as you seemed to be saying that Designer is only for supplementing Adobe if it doesn't have that function.

You are right walt.farrel, ADe has only been a complementary tool for some tasks, because I still do not feel comfortable finishing my projects in it. I don't like comparing with other apps, I think Affinity must be unique and possibly go in the right direction, but for me it is not time yet.

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I think Designer (currently) is being specialized more for graphical works than even Illustrator. In college we would make basic (generally graphic) fliers, text-heavy collages and "artsy" stationary in Illustration. In-Design would've been vastly overpowered as the features were largely unnecessary as it was just simple text-formatting for the purposes of "display", not legibility/consumption.

If you need a "graphical" reason to include this feature though, there is a certainly a utilitarian use for artists as far as putting texts in columns. Just look at many typographical projects:

https://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=typographical&rs=typed&term_meta[]=typographical|typed

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3 hours ago, Oval said:

Why not? If we find the right arguments … perhaps like this one: People are disappointed … like Cuando because they thought they will get all tools in ADe to create one single poster.

Well, I said that based on my experience when I asked for the Pages Panel to be included in Designer: it was to work on it the same way that Macromedia Fireworks users used to do it back in the day.

My argument was that it'd not compete since Pages would be displayed differently on each Application, if my memory serves.

Best regards!

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1 hour ago, debraspicher said:

If you need a "graphical" reason to include this feature though, there is a certainly a utilitarian use for artists as far as putting texts in columns. Just look at many typographical projects:

https://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=typographical&rs=typed&term_meta[]=typographical|typed

Nice group of projects, Debra; thanks for posting that search, as it gives some interesting examples and food for thought. But from a quick look at what came up when I did that search, very few of those projects had any need for text in columns.

Sorry, but I remain unconvinced that Designer needs that feature. But my opinion in this matters very much, and from a user perspective yours or Cuando's opinions are just as valid. In the end it's up to Serif to decide their marketing strategy, and their feature partitioning among the Affinity apps.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

Nice group of projects, Debra; thanks for posting that search, as it gives some interesting examples and food for thought. But from a quick look at what came up when I did that search, very few of those projects had any need for text in columns.

Sorry, but I remain unconvinced that Designer needs that feature. But my opinion in this matters very much, and from a user perspective yours or Cuando's opinions are just as valid. In the end it's up to Serif to decide their marketing strategy, and their feature partitioning among the Affinity apps.

It's hard for others to see it this way once a feature becomes a part of their toolbox. There's many features in a program that I very rarely touch, but when I find a situation where that feature fits a particular use-case or my particular design strategy (or just saving time), it becomes "indispensable".

It's possible to break up these elements into boxes and arrange using a grid, but if there's a lot of that going on in a typography heavy design as an example, then it can be time-consuming if any of these elements need to be "updated" and text altered. Another example, UI/web-design which is another direction Designer seems to be leading towards. Those are "text-heavy" as well, but they're not "documents".

As it were, we don't have many features (yet) for "reshaping" type anyway beyond the simple basics, so it's likely when they move forward, we will see something like column-based options updated as well I think. That's my hope anyway.

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42 minutes ago, Oval said:

Because Serif advertises body text for ADe and because ADe has Artistic and Frame Text with Filler Text, ADe should have a complete Frame Text tool or none Frame Text tool.

I agree with you ... We are not requiring Super capabilities.

Serif should listen and know to its potential users, what are the real capabilities that their apps need to make the final jump.

I am a graphic designer and design teacher too, from the beginning I put the focus in Affinity apps with my students... But today I have no arguments for them to abandon Adobe Illustrator and its capabilities for example. They are the future, where does Serif want to look? 

(Sorry for my crap English)

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One of the things I MOST respect about Serif is their persistence in staying true to their mission, and it becomes most apparent in situations like this. They have, by their actions, tried their best to stay away from the all-things-to-all-people paradigm that is endemic in the Microsoft ecosystem. This razor-sharp focus has enabled them to make arguably the BEST software out there, with a level of excellence in user experience that is woefully absent in most other software, at any price.

Let us allow Serif to continue with their commitment to excellence, and accept that we will not get everything we might want. But what we do get is the creme de la creme of software. I just wish other companies would follow their lead on this.

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12 minutes ago, Michael Sheaver said:

all-things-to-all-people

Woowwww! I don't need all things, we are talking about basic tools to develop real projects.

 

20 minutes ago, Michael Sheaver said:

the BEST software out there, with a level of excellence in user experience

:35_thinking:

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I suggest you do that.
Make this version of Affinity free for those who are satisfied with existing features and do not need anything else, and make paid Affinity Pro (much more expensive than the current price) where the program will have the real things that people working on these programs and earning money expect.

I can pay more, so far I've been paying about 700 Euro for a year for the Adobe package. So I would like to pay more to fix the program with errors and provide basic graphic functions.
I am not talking about cosmic functions but about properly functioning basic ones.
Let new features be created in version 2.0. The program should now be stabilized.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

If Affinity adds multi-column options to the text frames in Designer, the next mandatory step is to add the text flow properties from Publisher. Text frame linking, widows/orphan prevention etc.. And there is a slippery slope starting from there. At the end you'll get a clone of Publisher named Designer. Is that really a good idea?

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