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Why is View tool (hand) the top default tool and not Move tool?


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This may seem like a small detail, but it constantly trips me up when opening new documents that the top default tool in Affinity Photo is for some reason the View tool (Hand, for panning around) and not the arrow pointer Move tool. This is different for some reason in Photo, whilst both Affinity Designer and Publisher follow the convention of most other tool-based graphics software that have move/select tools as the first default tool and the view/pan tool placed by the zoom tool.

Seems extra strange since the View tool is probably the one tool I never use as it's so easy to pan around with middle mouse button or space bar. So if you don't have any good reason for this, please change the default top tool to the Move tool and move the View tool down like in your other software.

1515265118_Screenshot2020-01-18at11_39_43.thumb.jpg.e20332a91e5d74da5efb0c0a6c7b3b39.jpg

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If you go in to view customise tools you can drag the hand tool of the tool bar and the re add it at at the bottom or just drag to reposition

image.thumb.png.18c5d00d9963e31ee6868497771a365f.pngimage.thumb.png.5b165ba517efbe06eba29299338198b4.png

 

Alan Pickup

Windows 11 Home all Affinity suite of Apps PC and Gigabyte Laptop 16gb Ram and Nvidia GTX1660 Super on each.

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1 hour ago, gafvert said:

This may seem like a small detail, but (...)

I already suggested that Serif might need to consult Usability-Experts (not just UI-Designers) to check their products.
If you look closely, there are lots of postings in this forum that refer to flaws in the interface-design.

It seems to me that Serif is flooded with customer feedback (feature requests and bug reports likewise).
Perhaps they are victim of their own success?

kind regards
Fritz

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From one perspective the hand tool being in a different place from the other apps is a curious inconsistency.

But then, the other apps deal primarily with vector objects and the move tool would be a primary tool of choice for them and thus a good default.  As the primary intent with Photo is to work with pixel layers in a manner which makes the move tool questionable for a typical document, it doesn't really make much sense to default to that one either.

Perhaps the marquee tool should be at the top?

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39 minutes ago, Cecil said:

Isn’t just an easy user customization as @AlanPickup suggested?

Yes, and No.

Yes, you can move the tools around and make the layout consistent with the other applications.

No, you cannot make the Move Tool the default tool in Photo. The default will remain the View Tool, as that is hard-coded into Photo no matter where the tool is located within the Tools panel.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
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6 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Yes, and No.

Yes, you can move the tools around and make the layout consistent with the other applications.

No, you cannot make the Move Tool the default tool in Photo. The default will remain the View Tool, as that is hard-coded into Photo no matter where the tool is located within the Tools panel.

Thank you, I missed the request for setting the default tool in Photo.  

Cecil 

iMac Retina 5K, 27”, 2019. 3.6 GHz Intel Core 9, 40 GB Memory DDR4, Radeon Pro 580X 8 GB, macOS,iPad Pro iPadOS

 

Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection 

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4 hours ago, AlanPickup said:

If you go in to view customise tools you can drag the hand tool of the tool bar and the re add it at at the bottom or just drag to reposition

Thanks for the tip, I didn't know you could customize the tools, I've done that now to make it more consistent for me. It was also a little harder to find this as in the top toolbar you can right-click to get a context menu where you can pick "customize toolbar". But if you right click in the tools to the left you get nothing, so I figured they were fixed. But as others have pointed out, this customization doesn't seem to affect the fact that the view/hand tool is still the default tool when you open the application or new documents.

It may be true as some others have stated that since Photos is mostly for working with pixel images Affinity figured the move tool wouldn't be so useful. I guess the same reasoning is behind the decision to have the Layers panel hidden in the default interface layout and instead show Adjustments first. In my workflow however, I mostly start with opening or creating a new document and pasting or dragging in some new artwork into it and usually have lots of different objects/layers. So for me I expect to have the move tool active by default so I can move the object I just added to the document, but instead I find myself panning around when I drag.

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The fun thing is that in a new document the move tool isn't very useful either unless you start by creating guides.  For all other use cases you need to switch to the intended tool anyway, so it shouldn't really make much difference which one comes up by default - it will be the wrong one 99% of the time in all three apps.

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It is puzzling that almost all dedicated users say that something is completely unnecessary or unnecessary.
Forum users present their suggestions for changes and improvements in Affinity depending on their workflow and this should be respected. Personally, I never thought that an idea or improvement for someone was unnecessary.
When it comes to Affinity Photo, I also often start working with, for example, moving an object or clicking an object to check its size. And I would also prefer the Move Tool to be the default tool or let me set in the preferences what tool should be the default (to satisfy everyone) .

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44 minutes ago, GRAFKOM said:

I would also prefer the Move Tool to be the default tool or let me set in the preferences what tool should be the default (to satisfy everyone) .

I would like to set in Preferences which tool is the default in all three applications. Until then I will put up with the annoyance that is "using software".

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 
Affinity Designer 2.4.0 | Affinity Photo 2.4.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.0 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/20/2020 at 10:12 PM, Old Bruce said:

I would like to set in Preferences which tool is the default in all three applications. Until then I will put up with the annoyance that is "using software".

 

23 minutes ago, GroguILove said:

Just to add that I also would very much appreciate the Move Tool being default (or a way of setting it as default being added). It is irritating to always have to switch from the View Tool. 

Instead of having to set this explicitly in Preferences, all of the apps should automatically set the top tool as the default.

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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  • 3 weeks later...

I use the effect of the View (hand) tool by pressing down my mouse scroll button. Very easy movement about a document that way. 

And constantly I find the View (hand) tools auto / default selection to be annoying. I just want the MOVE tool to be default because I have my mouse scroll to handle view tool... 

And yes absolutely this:

On 3/14/2021 at 3:45 PM, Alfred said:

 

Instead of having to set this explicitly in Preferences, all of the apps should automatically set the top tool as the default.

 

Look Good, Live Wild, Love Life

- TrYptiX Fashion

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/14/2021 at 2:45 PM, Alfred said:

automatically set the top tool as the default.

I strongly disagree. The UI and behavior of the application should be designed to be completely clear and obvious to do what it is intended for.

Tool panel is a panel for Tools, not for affects the application behavior by side effect.

If a user-selectable tool type is required after opening the document, then only by using the option in Preferences.

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7 hours ago, Pšenda said:

I strongly disagree. The UI and behavior of the application should be designed to be completely clear and obvious to do what it is intended for.

But it is completely clear! When you open Affinity Designer with the default layout, the Move Tool is on top and selected; when you open Affinity Photo with the default layout, the View Tool is on top and selected.

If you customize the tools, the Move Tool is still the default tool in AD and the View Tool is still the default tool in APh. All I’m suggesting is that whatever tool you put at the top should be selected by default when you open the app.

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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33 minutes ago, Alfred said:

All I’m suggesting is that whatever tool you put at the top should be selected by default when you open the app.

Yes, I understand that - and I don't want that either. I want to be able to adjust the panel according to my work needs, ie how they suit me during "work", and not that the side effect you designed (the upper tool will also be chosen as the default) limits this variability.

Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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3 hours ago, Pšenda said:

the side effect you designed (the upper tool will also be chosen as the default) limits this variability

The change that I’m advocating would simply mean that we can choose the default tool by rearranging the icons. There should still be a preference setting for those who don’t like the behaviour imposed by the installation defaults.

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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I too prefer the Move tool to be on the top and the View tool not to be default tool.
Strange thing is that the Move tool was on the top and Marquee tool was the default in PhotoPlus.
What made Serif rethink about it...?

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  • 1 year later...

Ditto. This is so unintuitive, both for new users and returning ones.

Every time I open a document to edit it, I waste my first two clicks on an object with the Move tool selected. Along with defaulting to upper-left anchors, this always catches me off-guard because other software tools spoil us with persistent memory of our last selection and workspace preferences.

Persistence between sessions would be a huge boon, and a simple way to address this.

When I try to get new users to use Affinity Photo, they always complain that it's "too hard to use" because they don't know how to select something in the document. We spend a few minutes debugging. Lo and behold: the problem is always that they have the Hand tool selected, with no guidance whatsoever that it can't be used to select or move objects on the canvas.

Such an obvious UI bug. Not addressing this on Affinity Photo's part is not a good look when it's fighting against Photoshop and usability. With so many users complaining about it, I wonder if the people at Serif even listen? Or are they just stubborn in their design choices? So hard to say, but the more I use Affinity, the more of these I discover, which is rapidly tarnishing my faith in the product and its design leadership.

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  • 6 months later...

Yes the view tool as a default tool drives me absolutely insane, wasted clicks & time for canvas movement.
It's like a car designer putting the drivers seat in backwards as default because you may want to reverse, then telling everyone they can turn it to face forward when they need.

I certainly like Alfred's option of making the default tool changeable by moving it to the top most position.
We're in version 2 now (2023) & there are some very basic things missing. Bitmap trace/selection & convert to path (curves/stroke) was available in Macromedia Fireworks over 20 years ago, Inscape does it, Gimp does it, Illustrator does it, where is it in at least Designer but Photo too?

I still use Fireworks (Fireworks is a good old friend of mine) to do this then go online to convert it to an SVG to then reimport it into designer, I'm going to London via Mars!
I should use Inscape I know, but old habits die hard, but my point is I should be able to do this in Affinity.

But to stick with this thread MOVE tool not  VIEW tool, Please.
 

Motto - STUPID HURTS!

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4 hours ago, Timespider said:

Bitmap trace/selection & convert to path (curves/stroke) was available in Macromedia Fireworks over 20 years ago

Serif DrawPlus (Windows only, discontinued) includes an auto-trace feature. Serif PhotoPlus (Windows only, discontinued) can stroke a ‘marching ants’ selection outline.

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen)

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