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Cycle Selection Box - how does it work?


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Hi, guys. I'm working on creating a geometric pattern. When I select multiple separate objects, the edges of the selection box correctly align with with the edges of the shapes (pic 1):
2102137361_Annotation2020-01-17113903.thumb.png.b9e0cc66b637dec10a7c05b35d9a4b17.png

However, when I group them the selection box's top edge is now above the shapes and alignment is based on that new box (pic 2):
322177631_Annotation2020-01-171139032.thumb.png.04ee3c552ee129eb62b5627307a78716.png

And lastly, I found the Cycle Selection Box button, and clicking that resizes the selection box back to what I would consider 'normal' (pic 3), although I have to do that every time I select those grouped objects again:
411626208_Annotation2020-01-1711390323.thumb.png.94d1fa040eb2b5c6f546c803e96f19bb.png

So basically my question is what is causing the selection box to think it needs to be like Picture 2? The Affinity Designer help article says:

Quote

When shapes are created, a base box will be established on creation to accommodate the range of different potential shape sizes when creating variants of that shape.

I'm just not entirely sure what this actually means, and how it can be useful in my workflow? Cheers.

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Your quote from the help gives you the answer as to why it is happening. What happens if you convert the shapes to curves then duplicate and group?

MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012) Mac OS 10.12.6 || Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 11.7

Affinity Designer 1.10.5 | Affinity Photo 1.10.5 | Affinity Publisher 1.10.5 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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FWIW – I tried this, with a similar shape, and got the same result, except with the "extra bit" at the bottom, instead of the top!
I must be honest, I haven't a clue what "to accommodate the range of different potential shape sizes when creating variants of that shape" actually means!

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16 minutes ago, PaulEC said:

I must be honest, I haven't a clue what "to accommodate the range of different potential shape sizes when creating variants of that shape" actually means!

For shapes.

The base box is the maximum size a shape can occupy when you manipulate its adjustment nodes

The two shapes shown below are exactly the same except that the second one has moved its (red) adjustment nodes to their maximum values, hence it now occupies the full area of the (same) bounding box.

 

shapes.png

R.I.P

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31 minutes ago, PaulEC said:

FWIW – I tried this, with a similar shape, and got the same result, except with the "extra bit" at the bottom, instead of the top!
I must be honest, I haven't a clue what "to accommodate the range of different potential shape sizes when creating variants of that shape" actually means!

These are the same size only the number of points on the star have changed. I have guides added to show the bounding boxes.

1082831802_ScreenShot2020-01-17at6_38_58AM.png.f9d056e09fc31e6ae63ef6c8290ac280.png

after converting to curves

796105852_ScreenShot2020-01-17at6_43_23AM.png.4bac3c63c05226ad09c41a20feaf15bc.png

 

MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012) Mac OS 10.12.6 || Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 11.7

Affinity Designer 1.10.5 | Affinity Photo 1.10.5 | Affinity Publisher 1.10.5 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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Maybe this very simple example will help. The 2 regular polygons are identical except for how many sides they have. They have identically sized Base Boxes because that represents the smallest possible rectangular box that would touch every edge of the polygon regardless of how many sides it has. The Regular Box for the pentagon is smaller because it represents the smallest possible rectangular box that would touch every edge of that specific shape. The Base & Regular boxes for the octagon are identical because for that specific shape both represent the smallest possible rectangular box that would touch each of its edges.

2109410372_basevsregularboundingbox.jpg.c1bbac2442a7807acf3fedc3ed41920e.jpg

Obviously, for other shape variants the boxes would be different, but for all of them the bounding boxes will obey this 'smallest possible' rule.

As for the usefulness of this difference, consider for example dragging a bounding box handle to resize, rotate, or shear the shape.

Affinity Photo 1.10.5, Affinity Designer 1.10.5, Affinity Publisher 1.10.5;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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Hey, guys, thanks for taking the time to explain and help me understand. The help stuff for AD says that 'curves' are an open path, and shapes are closed paths, but it sounds like there's a lot more to it than that, then. 

Quote

What happens if you convert the shapes to curves then duplicate and group?

That option is greyed out for me, whether I try while they're still grouped, ungrouped but all selected, or even if I select an individual piece. Does that mean it's already a curve, or a shape?

So the Base Box is based on changes you might make, and it's the default, whereas the Regular Box is based on how the shape actually is, but needs to be toggled on every time you want to see it, snap to any other shape or alignment, or even just click back onto that shape after clicking off?

Edited by Davideo
Words are hard, mate.
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6 minutes ago, Davideo said:

The help stuff for AD says that 'curves' are an open path, and shapes are closed paths, but it sounds like there's a lot more to it than that, then.

Where do you see that in any of the "help stuff" Serif supplies for the Affinity apps?

Affinity Photo 1.10.5, Affinity Designer 1.10.5, Affinity Publisher 1.10.5;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.5.280 & Affinity Designer 1.10.5 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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@R C-R, I've gotten that from under 'Drawing curves and shapes' in the subsection 'About curves and shapes' on the Affinity Designer Help info.

Is there a way to make a rotation permanent so that the selection box isn't continually at a wonky angle? For example, I'm done making the individual adjustments to each piece of my pattern, and I'm now ready to just have them be normal shapes, similar to Adobe Illustrator's 'Reset bounding box' option. I assume the AD 'Convert to curves' would do this, but still can't figure out why I'm not able in my project. Gonna keep working on it.

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Cheers, @markw. Yeah, that does give me a workaround for it, though I also agree with the one of the posters in that thread that an option for permanence would be super helpful.

Just want to say that everyone on this forum is legend. Thanks for all the help and patience, and I'm sure I'll be back soon.

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