AP beta 526: CR3 to TIFF quick comparison

[gewb]

I have been testing the AP beta (build 526) CR3 to TIFF batch conversion and then comparing the result to three other program conversions:

• Luminar 4, v4.1.0 (5191)
• Digital Photo Professional 4, v4.11.0.2
• FastStone Image Viewer, v7.4

I ran a library of 56 CR3 files from my Canon 90D for a rough conversion timing:

• DPP - approx. 12 min.
• Luminar 4 - approx. 13 min.
• AP Beta 526 - approx. 7 min.
• FastStone IV - approx 1.25 min.

Using one files as an example,these are the converted sizes:

(orig. CR3 file: 10,387KB)

• AP Beta: 190,738KB
• DPP: 186,984KB
• FS: 94,615KB
• L4: 189,230KB

I viewed the tif (tiff) images in several different programs to get a feel for their general appearance prior to post processing. A couple things stood out:

• The FastStone image had the lowest overal quality especially related to finer detail and contrast.
• The Digital Photo Professional and Luminar 4 had nearly identical appearance with the expected levels of detail, brighthness, contrast, etc. I judged the DPP image to be slightly brighter than the L4 while I preferred the blacks and mid tones of L4.
• The Affinity Photo Beta was seriously "underexposed" and required a 50% increase in brightness or just over a +1 stop exposure compensation to achieve a similar appearaance to the DPP and L4 images. All of the AP converted had this issue.

Color rendition is a bit different in the four programs but I haven't had time to dig into that.

The attached image is a quick screen shot of the four images opened in AP beta and placed side by side. Not to be used to judge detail, etc but is a fast way to see the brightness issue in the AP conversion.

 

[walt.farrell]

It's pretty well known, I think, that one does not get good results from RAW files in Affinity Photo unless one Opens them individually and runs them through the Develop Persona.

Any other use (New Panorama, New Stack, New HDR Merge, New Focus Merge, New Batch Job, or File > Place) will give poor results.This is not a problem with the beta; it's standard Affinity Photo processing, and is due to the other uses not going through all the functions of the Develop Assistant. Specifically for batch jobs, you can probably create a macro based on a few of your TIFF files that would allow you to make some adjustments (possibly a Curves adjustment) to improve things, and then use that macro in your batch job to get a better result.

[Chris B]

Hey gewb,

Walt is bang on the money here. Batch processing raw images will not nor should it give you the same results as taking a raw image into the Develop Persona and developing it. Again, as Walt pointed out, you can always use a macro to increase the brightness of a batch of images if you know they are all going to need a slight adjustment. 

[gewb]

Thanks Walt and Chris. As I staed, this was to quickly test this BETA release to see how it converts CR3 to TIFF and compare to others in the field. Too bad this hasn't been fixed but as you pointed out there are work arounds. Indeed one would need to add a separate step into the workflow.

[Andyneu]

Hello,
 

Quote

The Affinity Photo Beta was seriously "underexposed" and required a 50% increase in brightness or just over a +1 stop exposure compensation to achieve a similar appearaance to the DPP and L4 images.

 

I can confirm that. I developed about 250 raw pictures of my canon 77d in CR2 format with the beta.

Each of these images was about 40-50% darker after development. There is still a little problem.

From the 250 raw images, I also developed about 50 in AffinityPhoto 1.7.3. There was no difference after the development - as it should be

[Amateur John]

This behaviour of Affinity Photo certainly gives some of us coming from LR or Nikon's NX-D and several other converters, difficulties. The Affinity default conversion is accurate. Most other converters by default attempt to give something a bit like an out of camera jpeg. That gives an easier image to work with in many cases. I have found that for some particularly difficult high contrast images increasing exposure in the 32 bit space of the develop module allows a good rendition of shadows without burning out highlights; those highlights can then be toned down before pressing the develop button. I guess that is all obvious to experienced workers. I am beginning to realise the advantage of starting from a flat conversion. If Affinity does at a later date allow batch processing to generate 'camera jpeg like' afphoto files then I also hope that we will still have the option of working from a flat conversion because there are cases where this approach, the present one, leads to a better finished image (albeit with more effort).

[gewb]

On 1/16/2020 at 1:47 AM, Chris B said:

Hey gewb,

Batch processing raw images will not nor should it give you the same results as taking a raw image into the Develop Persona and developing it.

Hi Chris -

This issue is also with one-off opening of CR3 files, not just batch processing.

[Chris B]

16 minutes ago, gewb said:

Hi Chris -

This issue is also with one-off opening of CR3 files, not just batch processing.

There's currently an open issue at the moment where raw files will open darker, making them appear unmanaged. Can you try minimizing and then maximizing the app to see if this temporarily fixes it? If so, can you then do this:

1. Windows key + R
2. Type in %AppData%\Affinity\Photo
3. Rename the 1.0 folder to 1.1
4. Launch Affinity Photo

That should fix the issue whilst we work on a proper fix. 

[gewb]

Hi Chris -

Followed instructions (twice) but no joy.

 

[Chris B]

So the raw file is always dark—even after the reset and min/maxing the screen? If that's the case, you might not be seeing the open issue we have logged. 

We've been working on a general fix for raw files being dark after a batch but I'd like to get access to some of your raw files. Would you mind attaching one or two?

[Amateur John]

Thanks for an email. I will get back tomorrow. I am not exactly sober at the moment. I have a few files to illustrate  the issue.

[Amateur John]

The behaviour with Nikon NEF is similar to that of cr3. At default Nikon Capture NX-D takes these NEF files to 16 bit tiff files that look like the embedded jpeg.

Weather permitting I will take some similar pictures tomorrow on our park workday but with the camera set to raw + jpeg.

Actually the difficulty is rapidly disappearing for me as I learn how to deal with the flat conversions rapidly on an individual basis instead of trying to develop in batch. I was only using batch from NEF to afphoto files because I preferred working only in the main persona rather than develop.

_2019-12-18_10_52_27.NEF

_2019-12-18_12_21_55.NEF

_2020-01-15_12_53_57.NEF

[gewb]

On 2/10/2020 at 1:07 PM, Chris B said:

So the raw file is always dark—even after the reset and min/maxing the screen? If that's the case, you might not be seeing the open issue we have logged. 

We've been working on a general fix for raw files being dark after a batch but I'd like to get access to some of your raw files. Would you mind attaching one or two?

Hello Chris -

Happy to send a few files.

IMG_1700.CR3

IMG_1294.CR3

IMG_2202.CR3

[Chris B]

Thanks for the files. I can get the images to go dark for a brief second when I switch between the opened raw files or when I minimize and maximize the app but they don't stay dark—this is because the reset worked for me a while back.

I'm convinced this is the issue we know about though.

I read back the previous messages and realised I made a mistake. I told you to rename the 1.0 folder to 1.1 folder but I think you may have reset the retail version—not the beta version. I should have specified. Can you try again but this time target the beta folder? 

[gewb]

Hello Chris -

Still no joy but that's ok as your team is on it!

 

[Chris B]

Seeing as you've backed up both folders, as a last ditch attempt, can you launch the app with the Ctrl key held down and click Clear when prompted (don't change any of the ticks) and see if that does it?

[gewb]

Hello Chris -

No joy (tried twice).

 

[Chris B]

Any chance you can provide a screenshot with one of the images opened that you sent me? Sorry

[gewb]

Hello Chriss-

Done.

 

 

[Chris B]

Hey gewb,

Right, it looks like we are accidentally applying some exposure compensation on open. We can pretty much counter this by applying the opposite in Develop Persona. So for the moon image, I'm applying an exposure of 1.5 to counter the -1.5 that is being forced by the app.

CR3 support is still pretty new for us so we're still on the road to improvement. We need to do some further testing so in the meantime, countering the exposure should be the workaround for now. You won't be losing any information by increasing it as it's unbounded so I don't anticipate any issues.

This is not the unmanaged issue I initially thought it was but the screenshots you provided were actually really helpful—thank you. 

[gewb]

Hello Chris -

You're welcome. Happy it helped.

 

[KJ2020]

Hi Chris,

I have this same problem with CR3 files, downloaded the latest Beta yesterday and same issue.  Exposure has to be raised about 1.5 to get it to where it should be compared to Photoshop 2020, Luminar 4, or FastStone Viewer.  My old CR2 files develop fine in AP, its just the CR3 files.  Hope it is resolved soon, right now I'm developing in Photoshop 2020 camera raw for the CR3 file, saving it as a psd file and finishing it up in AP.  

[AiDon]

Hi, Idon't seem to be having these issues with EOS M50 images. I also set the Tone Curve to Apply tone curve but with no Exposure bias in the Assistant. 

 

[KJ2020]

Thanks AiDon, I have the same settings, histogram is not correct...  second pic is after I raised the exposure 1.5.  Last pic shows how it looks in Photoshop 2020. Added one last pic at bottom of AP with No Tone Curve.

Edited June 25, 2020 by KJ2020
added picture

[KJ2020]

@Mark Ingram  Thank you Mark and everyone involved!  Beta 1.8.4.665 made my life better with reading my CR3 files!  My CR3 file looks much better now from an EOS R...  I toggled the "apply tone curve" off and on, much much better now...  Another pic I have really showed the purple haze badly of a lighthouse on a foggy evening, after a little tweaking in Develop, it looks the same as what Photoshop 2020 produced...