Accented Characters outside Text Frame

[v_kyr]

2 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

You forgot Bruce Dern, to my knowledge the only actor to kill John Wayne on-screen. (The Cowboys)

Ah well that name didn't said anything to me, but when I saw his face on the net I remembered seen some movies with that actor (Driver, Silent running etc.). Well western films are more the domain of my Dad, he's (in contrast to me) an expert for that genre.

[lacerto]

(...)

[MikeW]

Agree, except to say the cap value Affinity applications use is also a metric in a font. 

edited to mean what I was thinking...

[lacerto]

(...)

[MikeW]

I edited my post. Sorry about that. I had meant that Affinity applications seem to use the Cap height metric.

Typically, one should set the WinAscent to be at or slightly above a diacritic. But there are certain languages where most font designers do not account for them: Stacked diacritics (such as used in Vietnamese). It is then left up to the font user to set the line spacing to a discrete value to account for them so successive lines don't clash descenders/ascenders.

Here's a screen shot of a font I'm (still) working on that shows the metrics relationship to a cap A.

 

[lacerto]

(...)

[Nieck]

11 hours ago, Lagarto said:

This is typographically very important property, especially when using languages where diacritics are used, and if it is really not supported yet in Publisher, I wish it will be soon.

Thank you Lagarto for this extensive research. I wished that Publisher behaved just like InDesign, but I understand the developers from Serif have there own way of designing a program. I understand now that Publisher is not able to use the same values for metrics as InDesign does. I can work with that the moment I know it is not somewhere hidden. I was looking for something that did not exist in Publisher (yet).

What @MikeW showed in his screenshot was a good one for understanding the space of a character defined in a typedesign program, thank you for that.

@Lagarto The values are not completely arbitrary, you had to define the Capheight, X-height etc. yourself. There is a maximum of 1000 or 2400 units height available for the characters included the accents. That is for fonts that use the Latin script, I do not know how that works for other scripts like Arabic or Thai.
 

[lacerto]

(...)

[MikeW]

A lot to digest, Lagarto...

The short of it, ultimately the font designer sets these metrics values, even though they can be automatically calculated. The how they are used is up to whomever is creating the layout engine.

There are two sets of values for these metrics. The typo metrics depend on the font version (internal, the type of font version) being a version 4 or above, else they are not compiled. Even so, it is up to the type engine to utilize either the typo metrics or not.

If the layout engine does not use the typo values, the limited older type of values are used (which are those upper right area). To be honest, I have no idea which QXP uses...nor ID, nor APub, etc. It's never been an issue that I have concerned myself with per se.

----------------------

Q, and ID, etc, Frame baseline settings:  Q/ID/etc. use those settings for the frame property and for the first line of text in a frame (and other properties dependent upon that setting) and are minimum baseline values. All subsequent lines use the various other metrics to understand baseline to baseline measurements.

While Ascent is an as-installed default for Q, the other options affect that first baseline position.

[lacerto]

(...)

[lacerto]

(...)

[MikeW]

24 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

Still a couple of words about the concept of "ascender".

I think that the term itself is highly cultural dependent, but basically something that does not include diacritics at all, and that the term itself is likely to have been created within the Latin (Roman) tradition, rather than Germanic or Anglo-Saxon culture, the former including "extravagancies" like "ÄÖÜ", still existing in languages like Swedish and Finnish (Úü excluding, but Å,å including), and as non-diacritic variations (Æ,æ,Ø,ø) in Norwegian and Danish -- not to mention italian, French, Spanish diacritics, and other "peculiarities", abundant in all European languages.

Ascender not equal to Ascent.

The ascender height is the space above a cap letter that a lowercase letter rises to.

[lacerto]

(...)

[MikeW]

So here is the part of the letter /h that sticks above the cap metric with a guideline at the 1557 y value...

And from this font's metrics values...

If you look at the screen shot above from the frame options in Q, the Ascent option, you can see a bit of space above the /A letter. If that screen shot had included the letter /h, you would see it at the top frame edge...at least if I zoomed in enough.

[lacerto]

(...)