Want to sell Aff Photo, Designer (both 1.7) and workbooks (copyrights both 2018)

[timlt]

Hi, I am interested in selling properly licensed v1.7x copies of Aff Photo and Designer, and the Serif official workbooks that go with them.   $100 for all as a set, which is half the current retail price. 

Is it allowed to sell the software, and if so, can I post here and sell to a forum member?  

[walt.farrell]

The End User Licensing Agreement (EULA) for the Affinity products states (this is from Photo, but the others should be the same):

Quote

Your Rights and Permitted Use

1.    You are licensed to use the Serif Software as expressly set out in this Licence from your first use of the Serif Software until termination of this Licence.

2.    No rights in the Serif Software are sold to you; your right is solely to use the Serif Software within the terms of this Licence. All rights not expressly granted to you are reserved to Serif.

3.    The licence granted to you is limited, non-transferable and non-exclusive. Except to the extent any rights cannot be excluded by law, you are permitted:

That highlighting is mine, but I would say it prohibits you from selling or giving the software to anyone else.

[timlt]

Thanks, agree with your understanding but I've pinged support too to get the official word on the software.  I assume I'll probably just end up selling the books if they confirm the software is totally non-transferrable. 

[Cecil]

9 hours ago, timlt said:

Thanks, agree with your understanding but I've pinged support too to get the official word on the software.  I assume I'll probably just end up selling the books if they confirm the software is totally non-transferrable. 

US Supreme Court, as I read yesterday, is considering a lawsuit concerning this issue.  So if one passes this world, their computer must be wipe of all “license” software before their heir can use their computer and $50 software?  Windows 10 is licensed as well as most software.  Interesting topic, Ambulances chasers cruising neighbors looking for illegal, purchased software use.

[timlt]

I would sure like to keep using my copies of AP and AD--they are my fave graphics software.  But I realized I made a tactical mistake:  bought a new Canon (EOS M6 Mk II) which requires CR3, and neither the camera, nor CR3, nor my specific EF-M 18-150 lens, are supported by Affinity.  Yeah, you'd think I would've checked that before I bought, but I didn't, not the world's most experienced RAW processor or digital photographer.  Sure, I can use Adobe to convert CR3 to DNG, and the RAW importer will pick up my images fairly well, but it's not the same thing as having real camera, RAW format, and lens support.  And I don't want to have to do a zillion manual adjustments every time I import a RAW image.  

I realized with some research that an Adobe solution of PS + Bridge (or Lightroom), which is basically the $9/month subscription if I buy it off the Big River site, is the only thing that's going to give full, true support of my camera, lens, and format, as of today.  Yes on paper, ON1 2020 SAYS they support these, but honestly that app is horrible, unreliable, crashes frequently, and produces subpar image output at least for me.  Maybe something like Capture One would work, but  honestly at their prices, I'd rather just stick with the tried-and-true option of Adobe.  

So my short term plan:  Adobe CC subscription, but only until Affinity adds support for CR3, and my camera/lens.  Then I'm back to Affinity.  Hopefully that happens sooner rather than later!  :-)  

[v_kyr]

9 minutes ago, timlt said:

...But I realized I made a tactical mistake:  bought a new Canon (EOS M6 Mk II) which requires CR3, and neither the camera, nor CR3, nor my specific EF-M 18-150 lens, are supported by Affinity...

Well, since most opensource and lower cost commercial tools from smaller companies do rely on third party software here (for RAW file processing and accessing lens data etc.), it always takes a little bit more time until these adapt to newer cams RAW formats and certain lens datas. Most tools like APhoto, ON1, digiKam, Darktable, RawTherapee etc. use the libRaw and lensfun libraries for their cam related RAW processing. - LibRaw 201910 now claims to support CR3 files and your specific Canon cam, thus I'm pretty sure the actual APh 1.8.x beta line will sooner or later use that libRaw version too as a base lib and then probably support your cam/lens combo here. The same applies then to digiKam, Darktable, RawTherapee updates too.

However, it's up to you what you prefer to use and of course the Adobe tools are fine too, as is Capture One.

[walt.farrell]

23 minutes ago, timlt said:

But I realized I made a tactical mistake:  bought a new Canon (EOS M6 Mk II) which requires CR3, and neither the camera, nor CR3, nor my specific EF-M 18-150 lens, are supported by Affinity. 

Have you checked what's supported in the 1.8 beta? It has support for at least some CR3 files (and more coming), and some new Canon models, and the latest beta lists your lens.

[timlt]

@walt.farrell, I have.  In fact as recently as yesterday, from the latest 1.8 beta I clicked on a CR3 file and it says this file type is not supported. As for lens, where are you seeing that the 1.8 beta supports the EF-M 18-150?  I'm not seeing that in the lens profile dropdown in the RAW editor, or anywhere else. 

@v_kyr, yep on Libraw, in fact I saw as soon as that added support for CR3 and I pinged the devs who work on the FOSS app, Digikam.  They have already patched for the updated libraw so that the latest Digikam 7.0 beta on Windows supports CR3.  Which is pretty cool, since a lot of commercial software still doesn't support it yet.  But just the fact they got it to work that quickly, with like 1 guy doing the work to integrate it, means it is do-able so I'm hopeful that AP and others are soon able to add it as well.  

[walt.farrell]

10 hours ago, timlt said:

In fact as recently as yesterday, from the latest 1.8 beta I clicked on a CR3 file and it says this file type is not supported. As for lens, where are you seeing that the 1.8 beta supports the EF-M 18-150?  I'm not seeing that in the lens profile dropdown in the RAW editor, or anywhere else.

Thanks for checking. Perhaps they haven't gotten to your camera yet.

As for the lens, it's in my lens pull-down in the Develop Persona:

 

 

[v_kyr]

3 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Thanks for checking. Perhaps they haven't gotten to your camera yet.

As for the lens, it's in my lens pull-down in the Develop Persona:

AFAI can see from the OP's above post he named a EF-M 18-150 mm lens instead and thus it isn't among those then.

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, v_kyr said:

AFAI can see from the OP's above post he named a EF-M 18-150 mm lens instead and thus it isn't among those then.

Ah. Sorry; misread the lens info.

[timlt]

Anyway, to update the original Q of the thread, Affinity got back to me and as Walt suggested, it's not allowed to sell the software, per terms of the license.  However I can sell the books.

I'm actually glad it took a while for them to get back to me.  As in my earlier post, I'm rethinking whether to sell.  I basically had to get an Adobe subscription due to my choice of a rather new/bleeding-edge Canon camera, they and only a couple other options I wasn't interested in (such as ON1, Capture one), are the only ones I know of that appear to support both the camera and lens right now.

I will just keep the AP/AD software, and wait a while, hopefully they'll get my camera/lens combo added.  When they do, hopefully I can get out of the Adobe subscription. :-)

[v_kyr]

2 hours ago, timlt said:

I will just keep the AP/AD software, and wait a while, hopefully they'll get my camera/lens combo added.  When they do, hopefully I can get out of the Adobe subscription.

As said, after some more time (sooner or later) all major tools will support that combo too. In the meantime Canon's own DPP software, Adobe LR, CameraRaw and Phase One, probably DxO will support your combo too. - According to DxO here, you can give it a try ...

 

[fingers]

It would be great if Canon's own raw processing software supported user-configurable selection of photo sw instead of their current Adobe lock-in "Open in Photoshop" menu item. That way as soon as Canon roll out any new camera its raw format would be much easier to use with the user's own choice of software.

[timlt]

Since this thread, I've tried all the following software packages that could directly recognize the CR3 format, and my camera.  I didn't even try Capture One as the price is so high I know I wouldn't buy it.  

* Digikam 7.0 beta (download at https://files.kde.org/digikam/)
* Canon's own DPP software
* Adobe Photoshop
* DXO Photolab
* ON1 Raw 2020
* Skylum Luminar 4

All had various pros/cons.  Digikam's RAW image processing was HORRIBLE (in fairness, they use the OSS libraw library, and it's all still in beta).  Canon's software:  very powerful, but why such limited output formats, and why so horribly slow to output .tif files?  Unacceptable.  DXO Photolab is the best RAW processor I've ever seen.  However, it can't do anything else, definitely a very weak DAM, and I don't want to spend $150 for a RAW processor.  ON1 Raw?  Ugh, what a steaming file of trendy features, glitzy pushy marketing, and poorly written software, don't get me started.  Skylum Luminar 4?  A beautiful bit of software for easily enhancing images for non-pros like me, also very nice as a PS/LR plugin, but not ready to be a standalone complete DAM and photo management app.

So for now, it's me and my $9/month Adobe subscription.  I got some deals from some of the software I tried and wrangled the first 4 months of the Adobe subscription for free.  So basically the first year it's only costing me 8 x 9 = $72.  

Meanwhile:  If Affinity in 1.8+ adds CR3 support, and support for my lens listed above, I'll be back to Affinity asap.  :-) 

[timlt]

I should add here, when trying all the software listed in my last post, I had an interesting idea that I've posted about before on this forum:  if Affinity is not planning to develop DAM software themselves (something that almost every reviewer I've seen, and most users here, believe we still need), then maybe they should partner with one of the other software companies to make closer "ties" between affinity and another app that can function as a DAM.

For instance, Luminar 4.  They are working hard on building improving DAM functionality into their app.  Why not partner with them so that images could be passed easily back and forth between Luminar for RAW processing and "beautification using presets", and then be able to do more powerful tweaking in Affinity?  Just an idea.