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Setting bleed per (master) page in Publisher?


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Hi! I'm trying to do a layout for a "pdf to photo book" on Blurb and I'm at a loss for how to proceed with setting the bleed in Publisher. They give the following specs:

Page Specifications Points
Final, exported PDF should measure (w x h) 693 x 594
Page size / trim line (w x h) 684 x 576
Bleed (top, bottom, and outside edges) 9
Inset for Margins / Safe boundary (Top, Bottom, Outside Edge) 18
Inset for Margins / Safe boundary (Binding Edge) 36
Cover Specifications Points
Final, exported PDF should measure (w x h) 1483 x 648
Total Page size / trim line (w x h) 1439 x 604
Bleed (all edges) 22
Flaps (w x h, measured from trim edge to fold) none
Gutter / Spine (w x h) 33 x 648
Inset for Margins / Safe boundary (from edge of trim) 18
 

I'm doing both the cover and the pages in the same file...easy enough to do that but where I'm stuck is the bleeds are different for both the cover and the left side/right side pages. Is there a way to set bleed on each master page so that it is applied correctly for each page? The way I have it set up currently, the left edge has a bleed of 18 and the top, bottom, and right have a bleed of 9 on ALL pages. I know I could to facing pages...but Blurb can't seem to handle that. Any suggestions?

 

Thanks!

 

-Chris

p.s. the file contains sensitive information that I don't want out in the wild so I'm not attaching it. If needed, I can scrub it and attach a generic example.

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5 hours ago, ckujawa said:

I know I could to facing pages...but Blurb can't seem to handle that. Any suggestions?

Printer should not care if PDF pages are built as facing or not. Have you really uploaded your facing PDF as pages, not spreads?

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@ckujawa You don't have an option to setup different bleeds for a document. Different margins can be done by setting up another master page and applying that only to the pages that need the different margins. You could create a separate PDF, just for the covers, then you can setup the bleed you need. 

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  • 5 months later...
On 12/10/2019 at 1:24 AM, Fixx said:

Printer should not care if PDF pages are built as facing or not. Have you really uploaded your facing PDF as pages, not spreads?

With on demand print engines such as Blurb, they cannot handle spreads (none of them can as far as I can tell) so the files have to be upoaded as pages not spreads.

So, you have to duplicate each master and make a RH and LH page, with Blurb anyway...

With blurb I had so set my pages to the proper size including the bleed dimension (0" for the binding side) and use guides to show the bleed.

It is a clunky work-around and would be nice to be able to set bleeds differently per page or better yet per master.

 

ckujawa, with Blurb anyway, I use the two file approach, the cover file as a spread and the inner pages file as individual pages.

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017) Mac OS 13 | 4.2 GHz Quad Core Intel-Core i7 | 64GB Ram | Radeon Pro 580 8 GB

Adobe Photography (Lightroom and Photoshop) | Affinity Designer 2 | Affinity Photo 2 | Affinity Publisher 2 | Capture One Pro (for now) | Topaz Labs Photography Suite | Fast Raw Viewer | NeoFinder

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On 12/11/2019 at 6:35 AM, Lee D said:

@ckujawa You don't have an option to setup different bleeds for a document. Different margins can be done by setting up another master page and applying that only to the pages that need the different margins. You could create a separate PDF, just for the covers, then you can setup the bleed you need. 

See my post above, but for many of the on demand print services such as Blurb the bleed is different per RH/LH page.  The binding side must be set to zero, because they can only handle single page layouts not spreads.

They typically can only handle spreads on Imagewrap covers.  It is best to upload two files to them.  A cover file with the cover spread and an inner pages file with individual pages.

Blurb for instance has a close relationship with Adobe (they are the book print engine in Lightroom) and they utilize an InDesign plug-in to handle the issues with a single page layout book.

As these types of print services proliferate it would be nice to be able to design books (or book templates) for them without kludgy workarounds.

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017) Mac OS 13 | 4.2 GHz Quad Core Intel-Core i7 | 64GB Ram | Radeon Pro 580 8 GB

Adobe Photography (Lightroom and Photoshop) | Affinity Designer 2 | Affinity Photo 2 | Affinity Publisher 2 | Capture One Pro (for now) | Topaz Labs Photography Suite | Fast Raw Viewer | NeoFinder

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32 minutes ago, KC Honie said:

With on demand print engines such as Blurb, they cannot handle spreads (none of them can as far as I can tell) so the files have to be upoaded as pages not spreads.

So, you have to duplicate each master and make a RH and LH page, with Blurb anyway...

With blurb I had so set my pages to the proper size including the bleed dimension (0" for the binding side) and use guides to show the bleed.

It is a clunky work-around and would be nice to be able to set bleeds differently per page or better yet per master.

 

ckujawa, with Blurb anyway, I use the two file approach, the cover file as a spread and the inner pages file as individual pages.

If you set up your Publisher to use Facing Pages you can control the inner and outer Bleed settings.

If your print service cannot handle a PDF with Spreads, then just Export using the All Pages setting for Area in the Export dialog.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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40 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

If you set up your Publisher to use Facing Pages you can control the inner and outer Bleed settings.

If your print service cannot handle a PDF with Spreads, then just Export using the All Pages setting for Area in the Export dialog.

The problem is your first and last page are still sized incorrectly.  Because it applies the bleeds to the single page rather than the spread.  I guess that you could add two additional dummy pages front and rear and then delete the dummies from the all pages pdf export.  Once again it is a work around :(  I will have to see if I can get the page numbers to work out correctly.

None, that I am aware of, of the on demand print services can handle spreads...

I guess the point is the world of print is changing dramatically, it would be nice for Affinity to support some of those changes.  

Blurb handles these issues with an InDesign plug-in that sizes everything correctly.

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017) Mac OS 13 | 4.2 GHz Quad Core Intel-Core i7 | 64GB Ram | Radeon Pro 580 8 GB

Adobe Photography (Lightroom and Photoshop) | Affinity Designer 2 | Affinity Photo 2 | Affinity Publisher 2 | Capture One Pro (for now) | Topaz Labs Photography Suite | Fast Raw Viewer | NeoFinder

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1 hour ago, KC Honie said:

The problem is your first and last page are still sized incorrectly.  Because it applies the bleeds to the single page rather than the spread.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that, but if you think it's being handled incorrectly have you reported it as a bug?

Also, does it help if you set your document so the first page is on the left?

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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5 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that, but if you think it's being handled incorrectly have you reported it as a bug?

Also, does it help if you set your document so the first page is on the left?

The workaround is to add two blank pages to the front and one to the back then the document sizing is correct.  That is after you delete the blank pages from the pdf.

It is not actually a bug, but more of not yet keeping up with the changes in the way a lot of these types of documents are printed...  Adobe does the same thing, the Blurb InDesign plug-in fixes it.

 

PS.  The workaround is usable but, unfortunately it still fails.  When you export the spread to pdf using "All Pages" for single page printing AP adds the bleed back to the binding side and the page dimensions are then the wrong size.

The only real way to do it where the print engines don't complain about incorrect page dimensions is to set the bleeds to 0" and set the document size to include the bleed dimensions and then set guides where the bleeds should be.  This method works great, but the templates are unfortunately non standard.

I don't know that this is a bug, but it is certainly bad behavior to add the bleed back where it doesn't belong.

 

PSS.  I am attaching two work in process files (cover and inner pages) that work with Blurb for a 12x12 photobook.

All of this drama is because the on demand printers do not conform to printing standards!!! (Although I would really like AP to be flexible enough to handle those issues more gracefully)

When you add pages you need to add both a left and right back to back to retain the correct formatting. Every master page has a LH and RH page, with the margins and page number set up properly.

Let me know what you think and please feel free to modify and reupload.  I am sending them as simply afpub documents, not templates.

These file are provides as is with no warranty expressed or implied, use at your own risk.

 

Blurb 12x12 Hardcover single no bleed r4.afpub Blurb 12x12 Photobook cover.afpub

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017) Mac OS 13 | 4.2 GHz Quad Core Intel-Core i7 | 64GB Ram | Radeon Pro 580 8 GB

Adobe Photography (Lightroom and Photoshop) | Affinity Designer 2 | Affinity Photo 2 | Affinity Publisher 2 | Capture One Pro (for now) | Topaz Labs Photography Suite | Fast Raw Viewer | NeoFinder

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  1. Use facing pages.
  2. You can set different bleed value for every side.
  3. Nothing to do with master pages.

See the attachment.

Blurb 12x12 Hardcover single no bleed r4 1.afpub

All the latest releases of Designer, Photo and Publisher (retail and beta) on MacOS and Windows.
15” Dell Inspiron 7559 i7 Windows 10 x64 Pro Intel Core i7-6700HQ (3.50 GHz, 6M) 16 GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600 MHz (8GBx2) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 4 GB GDDR5 500 GB SSD + 1 TB HDD UHD (3840 x 2160) Truelife LED - Backlit Touch Display
32” LG 32UN650-W display 3840 x 2160 UHD, IPS, HDR10 Color Gamut: DCI-P3 95%, Color Calibrated 2 x HDMI, 1 x DisplayPort
13.3” MacBook Pro (2017) Ventura 13.6 Intel Core i7 (3.50 GHz Dual Core) 16 GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3 Intel Iris Plus Graphics 650 1536 MB 500 GB SSD Retina Display (3360 x 2100)

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6 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:
  1. Use facing pages.
  2. You can set different bleed value for every side.
  3. Nothing to do with master pages.

See the attachment.

Blurb 12x12 Hardcover single no bleed r4 1.afpub 293.85 kB · 2 downloads

Unfortunately that makes no difference whatsoever.  You still have to export the file to pdf as single pages (All Pages).  When you do that AP adds a bleed to the binding side that is the same as the outside edge.  This make the book the wrong size...

None of the on demand printing services can handle a facing page spread.  So the only way to really handle photo books designed for these services is to use single pages set to the document size including the bleed area.  I stopped using guides to depict the bleed.

The only way to make this work with bleeds is be able to set different bleeds on each master.

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017) Mac OS 13 | 4.2 GHz Quad Core Intel-Core i7 | 64GB Ram | Radeon Pro 580 8 GB

Adobe Photography (Lightroom and Photoshop) | Affinity Designer 2 | Affinity Photo 2 | Affinity Publisher 2 | Capture One Pro (for now) | Topaz Labs Photography Suite | Fast Raw Viewer | NeoFinder

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8 hours ago, KC Honie said:

Unfortunately that makes no difference whatsoever.  You still have to export the file to pdf as single pages (All Pages).  When you do that AP adds a bleed to the binding side that is the same as the outside edge.

Not true:

bleed-AP.png

bleed1.png

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Please, see this PDF I forgot to upload last time and you file modified just to see the settings I did.

Blurb 12x12 Hardcover single no bleed r4 1.pdf Blurb 12x12 Hardcover single no bleed r4 1.afpub

All the latest releases of Designer, Photo and Publisher (retail and beta) on MacOS and Windows.
15” Dell Inspiron 7559 i7 Windows 10 x64 Pro Intel Core i7-6700HQ (3.50 GHz, 6M) 16 GB Dual Channel DDR3L 1600 MHz (8GBx2) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M 4 GB GDDR5 500 GB SSD + 1 TB HDD UHD (3840 x 2160) Truelife LED - Backlit Touch Display
32” LG 32UN650-W display 3840 x 2160 UHD, IPS, HDR10 Color Gamut: DCI-P3 95%, Color Calibrated 2 x HDMI, 1 x DisplayPort
13.3” MacBook Pro (2017) Ventura 13.6 Intel Core i7 (3.50 GHz Dual Core) 16 GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3 Intel Iris Plus Graphics 650 1536 MB 500 GB SSD Retina Display (3360 x 2100)

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I did the a very similar layout test that you just did, if you will look at your (pdf) page width, you will see that it is 3mm wider than it should be...  It adds that 3mm to the inner side when you export (as a pdf) to all pages.

I would much prefer to layout as a double truck and export to single page pdfs. But when you export, the page dimensions are wrong and the print services reject them...

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017) Mac OS 13 | 4.2 GHz Quad Core Intel-Core i7 | 64GB Ram | Radeon Pro 580 8 GB

Adobe Photography (Lightroom and Photoshop) | Affinity Designer 2 | Affinity Photo 2 | Affinity Publisher 2 | Capture One Pro (for now) | Topaz Labs Photography Suite | Fast Raw Viewer | NeoFinder

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7 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

Please, see this PDF I forgot to upload last time and you file modified just to see the settings I did.

Blurb 12x12 Hardcover single no bleed r4 1.pdf 38.4 kB · 0 downloads Blurb 12x12 Hardcover single no bleed r4 1.afpub 293.85 kB · 0 downloads

So we have hit on the crux of the problem...  I would much rather do a two page spread rather than individual pages.  But AP is not respecting page dimensions when when exporting to single pages via All Pages.

I think we may have actually found a a bug in the pdf export routine...

 

My single page afpub layout file dimensions, including bleed (all set to 0.000" and accounted for in actual page size) is 11.875" x 12.000", and the exported pdf is also 11.875" x 12.000".

Your file and I appreciate the work you did looking at it...  When exported to pdf via All Pages the pdf page dimensions are 12.000" x 12.250", and that size is rejected by the printer.  AP is not respecting page sizing when exporting.

 

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017) Mac OS 13 | 4.2 GHz Quad Core Intel-Core i7 | 64GB Ram | Radeon Pro 580 8 GB

Adobe Photography (Lightroom and Photoshop) | Affinity Designer 2 | Affinity Photo 2 | Affinity Publisher 2 | Capture One Pro (for now) | Topaz Labs Photography Suite | Fast Raw Viewer | NeoFinder

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11 hours ago, KC Honie said:

if you will look at your (pdf) page width, you will see that it is 3mm wider than it should be...  It adds that 3mm to the inner side when you export (as a pdf) to all pages.

I do not see that. The bleedbox and trimbox are both the original A5 size. Of course same 3 mm is added to each side but page objects are cut at 0 in the inner part.

It is task of the imposition software to remove unneeded parts.

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1 hour ago, Fixx said:

I do not see that. The bleedbox and trimbox are both the original A5 size. Of course same 3 mm is added to each side but page objects are cut at 0 in the inner part.

It is task of the imposition software to remove unneeded parts.

All of this drama over a corrupted parent file... grrrrrr

I recreated the document and it works as it should.

All of the old is deleted and the new is being populated....

I appreciate everyones input!!!

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017) Mac OS 13 | 4.2 GHz Quad Core Intel-Core i7 | 64GB Ram | Radeon Pro 580 8 GB

Adobe Photography (Lightroom and Photoshop) | Affinity Designer 2 | Affinity Photo 2 | Affinity Publisher 2 | Capture One Pro (for now) | Topaz Labs Photography Suite | Fast Raw Viewer | NeoFinder

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