PSD for Apple Motion

[metapixel]

I'm exporting an image with transparency as PSD to import it in Motion. Motion says my file is using an unsupported codec. I'm able to open this file in Photoshop, and when I just save it, Motion imports it flawlessly. 

 

[Jonathan D]

I'm having the same problem. I either get unsupported codec or when I drag to motions' layer list, I don't get the option to import as separate layers. 

 

File > Import in Motion should also give the option to open a layered Photoshop file.

 

Exporting a PSD from AP - Motion can't open it or opens as a single layer

Exporting a PSD from AP and then opening & re-saving in Photoshop - as above

 

Motion only seems happy when the file purely originates from Photoshop. 

[Ben]

I suspect you are using 8-bit RGB files?  The reason is that we've applied ZLib compression as it offer smaller file sizes.  The problem is that not many third party apps appear to support it, from what we're now hearing.  Photoshop will read it happily.  The same will most likely be true if you saved a PSD from Photoshop and unchecked the "Maximum compatibility" box when saving - a lot of third party apps can only handle rasterised layers.

 

I'm going to change the exporter to default to exporting RLE (standard) compression for 8-bit (16-bit still uses ZLib as standard), and offer alternative options for less compatible exports so we can support third party apps better.

 

Saying that, we have no control over how good a third party PSD importer is.  If it opens in Photoshop, then that has to be our baseline.  We can't really test all the other apps that claim to support PSD.

[Ben]

Out of curiosity - Does Motion accept 16-bit RGB files saved from Photoshop?  What does it do with Adjustment layers (such as Curves) or layer effects?  The layers don't save with any raster data in the PSD file.

[Jonathan D]

Ben - I fully appreciate you can't test all apps for compatibility  :)

 

I've tested some 8 and 16 bit layered files from both Photoshop and AP with Motion 5:

• 8 bit PS = OK;
• 8 bit AP = Codec error;
• 16 bit PS = Flattened image only - no layers;
• 16 bit AP = Flattened image only - no layers.

So Motion does accept 16 bit Photoshop files, but with no option to import separate layers. This is the same behaviour as 16 bit AP PSD files.

 

Turning compatibility mode OFF in Photoshop seems to result in a blank image in Motion.

 

Motion doesn't import adjustment layers etc. Here is an extract from the Motion 5 user guide:

 

Layered Photoshop Files

You can also import layered Photoshop files. Many motion graphics professionals create layouts in Photoshop, then import the resulting multilayered file into Motion, where the layers are animated and combined with other imported and Motion-generated objects.

There are several ways to import layered Photoshop files:
• With all Photoshop layers merged together as a single Motion layer

• With each Photoshop layer preserved as a separate Motion layer, nested in a new group

• By choosing a single Photoshop layer

 

When you import all Photoshop layers as individual Motion layers, Motion places them in a new group in the Layers list and Timeline. Each layer retains the position, opacity, and blend mode of its corresponding original Photoshop layer.

Although you can import Photoshop text layers, the text appears in Motion as noneditable bitmap graphics.

Incompatible Effects

The following Photoshop effects are not imported into Motion:

• Layer effects
• Layer masks
• Adjustment layers

• Paths
• Shapes

Note: Motion does not support Photoshop layer sets.

 

I hope this helps

 

Jonathan

 

[Ben]

Right - so from what they've said, Motion only deals with simple raster layers in 8-bit files.  Useful to know.  They don't even support layer raster masks (which surprises me)!

 

If this is the case, it's going to be difficult to support Motion reliably without doing some work. (Seems to be the case when working in Photoshop also).  You can't use any effects, masks, or vector content.  You have to create your layers to be simple raster/pixel layers.   Does motion even deal nicely with Layer groups in PSD?

 

Something we can look at is PSD export with compatibility for certain third party apps.  It would work as an option in our export.  If I can identify the rules, I can export something that Motion would be happier with.  No promises right now though - it would have to work within our existing framework - we wouldn't write a whole new exporter just to support other third party apps.  We might offer it as a generic set of options with customisation.  I shall look into it, and see what we can come up with.

[My Strawberry Monkey]

If this is the case, it's going to be difficult to support Motion reliably without doing some work.

 

If I can identify the rules, I can export something that Motion would be happier with.

 

Yeah, going from Affinity to Motion and FCPX is not smooth at all and since I use them a lot it makes my life a bit more difficult, would love to see  better support and a more convenient workflow. Thanks.

 

Allan

[My Strawberry Monkey]

Saying that, we have no control over how good a third party PSD importer is.  If it opens in Photoshop, then that has to be our baseline. 

 

 

Ok, so creatively love Affinity, my work and tutorials show that. As for convenience I would have to make the right call, I teach and use FCPX and Motion a lot & other Apple stuff, but getting my work across is a pain. If part 1 of the workflow works smoother and faster and easier than Ps but part two is a pain, when do you make that creative call?

 

To quote you "If it opens if Photoshop"  then why not just use Photoshop? If a PSD from Photoshop opens up and works fine (at least for the most part, may have to turn off "Fixed Resolution") and a Ai File, it's gonna be easier than expected to make that decision.

 

Love what you've achieved so far and i'm sure there is a way to go, but would love better support either for a native Affinity file and support from Apple on that end or an improvement on the PSD export. 

 

 

Allan

[Jonathan D]

Quick(ish) work-around: Save each layer from AF separately as a .PNG. 

 

In Motion select these files and in one go, grab and move to workspace.

[Ben]

Ok, so creatively love Affinity, my work and tutorials show that. As for convenience I would have to make the right call, I teach and use FCPX and Motion a lot & other Apple stuff, but getting my work across is a pain. If part 1 of the workflow works smoother and faster and easier than Ps but part two is a pain, when do you make that creative call?

 

To quote you "If it opens if Photoshop"  then why not just use Photoshop? If a PSD from Photoshop opens up and works fine (at least for the most part, may have to turn off "Fixed Resolution") and a Ai File, it's gonna be easier than expected to make that decision.

 

Love what you've achieved so far and i'm sure there is a way to go, but would love better support either for a native Affinity file and support from Apple on that end or an improvement on the PSD export. 

 

 

Allan

 

Is it all that straight forward?  From what has been said, it's equally easy to save a PSD file from Photoshop that Motion and FCP can't handle.  If you add layer effects or adjustments to your file, a different colour format or bit depth, they will be ignored by these third party apps, so a degree of insider knowledge is required for this workflow.

 

So, for us to do a better and more reliable PSD export in order to best support these apps, we will have to offer more save/export options than Photoshop offers (since they are happily ignorant of these other apps and their limitations), and apply all this insider knowledge.  To do this for every third party app that people use is going to be a lot of work.

 

Testing the support for PSD import into these apps is also completely trial and error.  We have no way of knowing why an app fails to open a PSD we export if the same PSD opens fine in Photoshop - what bits of the file it requires, or what features it can't support.  Hence our chosen baseline.

[artyr]

Wouldn't it be simpler if you could write a plugin for FCPX and Motion that can import Affinity files?(in due time because you have a lot of other things to do :) )

 

Jack.

[Ben]

Having had a very quick look at FxPlugin docs - there's no mention of importer plugins.  The only plugins the SDK support are generators and effects.

[ronnyb]

Ben, perhaps this forum is handy. They have a link to a script for converting adobe illustrator objects into Motion "Shapes," but I'm not sure if that would be the same workflow to process PSD files...

 

Having had a very quick look at FxPlugin docs - there's no mention of importer plugins.  The only plugins the SDK support are generators and effects.

[My Strawberry Monkey]

Is it all that straight forward?  From what has been said, it's equally easy to save a PSD file from Photoshop that Motion and FCP can't handle.  If you add layer effects or adjustments to your file, a different colour format or bit depth, they will be ignored by these third party apps, so a degree of insider knowledge is required for this workflow.

 

So, for us to do a better and more reliable PSD export in order to best support these apps, we will have to offer more save/export options than Photoshop offers (since they are happily ignorant of these other apps and their limitations), and apply all this insider knowledge.  To do this for every third party app that people use is going to be a lot of work.

 

Testing the support for PSD import into these apps is also completely trial and error.  We have no way of knowing why an app fails to open a PSD we export if the same PSD opens fine in Photoshop - what bits of the file it requires, or what features it can't support.  Hence our chosen baseline.

 

Of course I know its not. My concern simply is if I export a PSD from Photoshop or Pixelmatr I retain my layers in Motion & FCPX, from Affinity it comes across as one file, unless i'm doing something wrong. I've never had any issues going across that way in my  previous workflow so not aware of any other issues.

 

 

Allan

[Jonathan D]

Not sure if this is helpful, but a 19.8Mb NEF file (Nikon RAW) converts to 47.9Mb Photoshop PSD and a 76.8Mb AP PSD. That's nearly 30Mb more. Both conversions were 8 bit

 

Under 'Channels' AP lists 4 channels: R, G, B and an Alpha channel. I've not seen this Alpha channel on Photoshop's channel list (it may be hidden). Could AP be saving the Alpha channel and PS not? Would an extra channel bump up the file size so much? 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Jonathan

[Ben]

Any chance you could upload a sample NEF so that I can do some testing?  Thanks.

 

I suspect it is because Photoshop saves it as a flattened image with just an RGB background.  Affinity always saves as a layered image - so the file will contain a flattened RGB of the image, plus an RGBA layer (with transparency).  There might be something we can do to improve that.

[Ben]

Actually - I just tested it with a simple JPEG, and the end result is the same.  It is as I thought - for a single RGB image we need to determine whether we can export to PSD as a flat image without alpha.  To date we've not really seen much call for it since most of the time people will add additional adjustments, layers or effects, and that results in a full PSD export just as Photoshop would do it - in this case we actually export a slightly smaller PSD than Photoshop.

[Jonathan D]

Ben:

 

.NEF file attached as requested. 

 

Jonathan

[Ben]

Ben:

 

.NEF file attached as requested. 

 

Jonathan

 

I don't think it's RAW files that's the issue - just the way we export PSD in general.

 

Though - why anyone would import a RAW file and export it as a PSD with no other modifications seems odd to me.  Personally, I'd maintain my changes as non-destructive adjustments, so that PSD export would produce a more appropriate file.

[matt4KHDR]

hi team, have there been any developments/changes to these issues/work-arounds 2015? I am looking into purchasing Motion and my thought process was to export Affinty files to PSD for import into the program.

[cmlndm]

This might be the solution you are looking for: 

 

[RNKLN]

Pixelmator Pro just received an update which includes the ability to export as a Apple Motion project. Just saying.