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CR3 files - next update?

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Mark, I had sent you some raw files for the Canon 90d.  It has now been quite a while since then.  Is there any update on when that model camera will be incorporated into the next beta release?   Any idea on when the next beta release will be?   Thanks, Johneb2

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Hello, Affinity Photo,

Would it be possible for you to expedite the support for Canon *.CR3 files. I have a EOS R, which I love, but converting the CR3 files to DNG and then open them in Affinity Photo is rather cumbersome as is every other "work around". Also, I don't care for the DNG format.   Until you support  CR3 files, Affinity is losing many customers. This problem should be Serif's  number one issue to resolve.

I have been learning more about Affinity Photo and I really like the software.

In the meantime, I will continue using Adobe Lightroom Classic and Photoshop CC. 

Thank you very much.

DRinLS

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Affinity Photo Windows Customer Beta - 1.8.0.514 does not open CR3 files from a Canon R either. I am pretty disappointed in Affinity as support for CR3 has been delayed for so long while other raw processors have had it for a long time. I would find it difficult to ever spend money with Serif again.

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Kirk, if you check my other thread, you will see Mark responded in reference to the Canon 90d CR3 files.  I am not sure about the Canon R, but it is very possible if may also be included in the next beta release.  If you have not done so, please upload a few images for Mark's reference.  I know he is very busy, and like you I am anxious for them to be supported.  If you need the link for uploading pictures, see the call for camera images thread.   Johneb

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Having just bought an EOS-R, I produced some CR-3 raw files and discovered. as everyone else in this thread, that Affinity doesn't have a codec. However, neither does Windows Photo Viewer, nor my version of Adobe PSE, and I suspect most other applications. And this is without even thinking about opening the Dual Pixel Raw format. So far, apart from DPP, the only other app I have found which will read CR3 format is from CEWE Galerie Photo, so everyone will be pleased to hear that they can at least print their pictures!

Maybe it would be helpful if all camera companies would settle on an industry standard format? Otherwise the software companies are obliged to spend their lives playing catch-up.

David M.

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@DRM,

I shoot Canon cameras too. Canon is very secretive with their formats. They will not release any info about them. This leaves the software companies with the only option of reverse-engineering. Since Canon provides free of charge their DPP, they have no interest or motivation to do differently. So it just takes time.


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Please see the Call for Images topic as Marked had requested we load the images to a Dropbox link instead of just posting them under different threads.  His criteria and directions are in that thread.  Johneb2

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5 hours ago, johneb21945 said:

Note:  sorry for typo.  It should have read Mark, not Marked.   Johneb2

There should be an ‘Edit’ link at the bottom of each of your posts (unless the thread in question has been locked).


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New to Canon and CR3 files.  I have the latest 1.8x beta, just tried, it will not import the CR3 from a EOS M6 Mark ii.  Which is ok, I realize it's in beta and under development.  Just reporting the facts on the ground for today.  For the time being, I'm using Adobe free DNG converter to convert CR3 > DNG. 

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On 12/7/2019 at 2:40 PM, Ron P. said:

@DRM,

I shoot Canon cameras too. Canon is very secretive with their formats. They will not release any info about them. This leaves the software companies with the only option of reverse-engineering. Since Canon provides free of charge their DPP, they have no interest or motivation to do differently. So it just takes time.

I work in software development and I believe strongly in the value of having highly used data formats follow standards.  It's incredibly short-sighted for these companies, when it comes to RAW files where it's just an aggregation of bits from the camera, to keep shipping proprietary-ONLY files formats without offering an export option in a standard format, be it DNG or something else. I just bought a Canon EOS M6 and love the camera, but am kind of disgusted with their shipping only a proprietary RAW file format.

I can just imagine a Canon developer on this thread saying, But we want to keep pushing the envelope even in the RAW file formats, adding new capabilities and features, and don't want to be held back in development and innovation by the open source process.  OK, do that.  But keep collaborating with the standard formats too.  Innovate with your proprietary format, and then submit proposed changes to the standard format to make it better.  And with your cameras and software tools, provide an output format in the standard formats like DNG, in addition to your proprietary one.  At least do that, it seems like it would save users SO much hassle because then we don't have to go out and find all new or different software tools to process RAW images.  

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I wonder how many camera manufacturers have propriety RAW files because, after all, it is sensor data. Of the big 3, Canon, Nikon and Sony, all do.

And all believe they have a commercial edge because of their sensors. It has always been an issue for early adopters of new camera releases as each and every release of a camera body has different RAW data content to other cameras in the same stable.

And as software manufacturers don't have access to RAW images before camera release, except for those that provide RAW converters for the camera manufacturers, they can't possibly have conversion options for newly released cameras.


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The point was only that the manufacturers should ALSO--along with their proprietary RAW format--make an open format such as DNG available for output.  They can definitely do that, with ease.  They don't want to, because (1) It'd take a modest extra effort and cost, and (2) They LIKE proprietary lockin and want to get you permanently hooked into their platform--as does almost every hardware OEM I can think of.  That's not evil, but they won't necessarily go broke if they just provide users some extra output options.  In fact, all things equal between two good cameras, I'd pick the one that gave me an open format RAW output option. 

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Download the Adobe DNG Converter and use that, because of their resources they are usually ahead of other companies. As they were when the EOS M50 was released and they managed to reverse engineer CR3 in 8 weeks.

You may want to check if your camera is supported and, if you want DNG, download the converter.


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Thanks--didn't know if you saw my post a couple of posts up, earlier today, I'm using Adobe DNG.  Also using Bridge as a DAM and metadata tagger.   Between those freebie tools, Darktable for RAW processing, and AP for everything else, pretty good toolset.  

Would love it if now a few more things happened:

  • AP 1.8 adds the improved metadata editing they're working on.  And in the future, a DAM application, or integration with an existing DAM application.  
  • Darktable adds native support for CR3.

 

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After the additional recent comments on the format issue for Raw files, let me make one more point. Canon, Nikon, Sony and the rest sell hardware. There is no charge for DPP or similar software without which the purchasers of said hardware can't make full use of it. Thus, one might have imagined that it would be in the interest of the camera manufacturers to make their new products as easy and attractive to use as possible. Thus, as the professionals and enthusiasts who wish to use Raw format will certainly do so because the intend to edit their images (with Photoshop, Affinity, or whatever), surely it is in the interest of the camera companies to publish definitions of each new format as it comes out?

Canon et al know that the software companies will reverse-engineer the codec eventually, as will the competition, so slowing them down simply makes their new products less attractive to potential customers (us!) and I can see no possible advantage in doing this. It is interesting to compare the situation with workstation companies in the 80s. DEC, Apollo and others tried to keep their systems closed, and they folded. Sun was much more successful.

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11 hours ago, timlt said:

Would love it if now a few more things happened:

  • AP 1.8 adds the improved metadata editing they're working on. 

That's already in the 1.8 beta on Windows.


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I know that--I've been using it.  However it is not locked into a released version, is missing metadata fields, and is not complete yet.  It's work-in-progress.  

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The pain to users of new raw formats from Canon would be less if DPP provided a direct call pass-through to other photo apps than just Photoshop.

That way they could protect their investment in technology and to a much larger degree and avoid pissing off their customers.

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Posted (edited)

Interesting thread. I have a 90D and have no trouble opening CR3 RAW files using the 1.8.0.526 beta build.

Edited by gewb

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I wonder if the support is Camera specific?  When I try to load .CR3 files taken with my M6 Mk ii, whether regular RAW or C-RAW, the 1.8.0.526 beta on Windows says "File type not supported."

Quick list of apps I've tested here that supported CR3 and my camera:

* Digikam 7.0 beta (libraw library)
* DxO Photolab 3
* Skylum Luminar 4
* On1 Raw 2020
* Adobe LR/PS

Of those apps, I found Lightroom by far the most compelling app in power, features, and results.  DxO outputs nice image quality, as does Luminar 4, but neither app is universal in its support and neither has the broader feature set and performance that I am looking for. 

I think the potential way forward for me is Affinity + Lightroom.  Note that with Lightroom classic (but not the cloud-only version), you can actually set it to launch Affinity as the editor on a photo.  Only downside is you still have to pay the full $9.99/month subscription just to get LR classic.  

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Currently I convert to TIFF then process. I am trying several CR3 > TIFF programs: FastStone Image Viewer, Canon DDP, AP Beta, and Luminar 4. Each program conversion looks different from the others in various viewers and I'm not sure which I prefer.

Once I find the conversion I "like" I'll then tune my post processing workflow. I hope I can find a single/primary application to do the heavy lifting fairly soon...but I will not go to Adobe. AP Beta is looking promising as is Luminar 4 but the two seem to target slightly different users.

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Sounds like we're going thru some similar research.

One of my 'requirements' for the CR3 processing software is that it needs to perform reasonably well.  Here's a comparative example of how two of the programs I've tested did with a set of 34 RAW files that I had converted from CR3 to DNG.  In both cases, the app was converting the 34 files from DNG to a full-quality full-size 300 ppi JPEG with no refinements applied: 

* Luminar 4:  15 minutes
* LR Classic:  1 minute

Other apps I tested outside of LR, were similarly slow.  DxO produces beautiful output especially on noise reduction of RAWS, no question.  But omigosh, it can be SO slow, and it's support of many lenses and cameras is totally lacking.  Doesn't even support leading/current cell phones, like Galaxy S10!   The performance and feature support on a lot of these apps outside of Adobe is so bad, I'm amazed anyone will pay for them.  Another one you hear people talking about a lot is ON1 2020 Photo--my theory is that it's popular for 2 reasons:  it's relatively cheap and a perpetual license, AND it essentially does everything in one app.  But.....the RAW output is really subpar IMHO.  Maybe I'm too particular, or maybe a lot of these other apps are designed for folks who don't process a high volume of photos, I dunno, but most of these other apps I've tested were not very satisfying to me.  

When I tried the Canon DPP app, I noticed that very similar to DxO, it produces VERY high quality output if you tweak it right, but it is INCREDIBLY slow.  I could not believe how long it took DPP to convert a folder full of CR3's from one camera shoot to a set of 16-bit, 300 ppi TIFFs.  Also, the UI of that app is incredibly clunky and non-intuitive.  Canon knows a thing or two about making imaging hardware, but they sure can't write software!  :-)

I feel pretty sure where I'm gonna end up at this point is running one of Adobe's DAM apps (LR CC or LR Classic) along with Affinity Photo.  The nice thing about LR Classic, as I mentioned, is I can use it to convert and non-destructively edit CR3's, and then hand-off in real time to Affinity for further edits when needed.  It's not the cheapest solution, but right now the best I can see for my camera.  

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