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4 minutes ago, All Media Lab said:

The problem is that you always have something to say, but no real arguments based on facts! Maybe it's time to not lurk around this forum all day and take a nice walk outside!

I know what I'm talking about and you proved to me that you  don't. If you don't want webp in Affinity fine! Some other people would be delighted when it was implemented in the export panel. I work with webp every day!

Again, you are deliberately missing the point

WebP is great I would love to see Affinity give that as an option

But it is not the miracle cure to solve all your SEO problems that some people in this thread are claiming it is- so as to add to the pressure on Affinity to add it to the apps

To save time I am currently using an automated AI to reply to some posts on this forum. If any of "my" posts are wrong or appear to be total b*ll*cks they are the ones generated by the AI. If correct they were probably mine. I apologise for any mistakes made by my AI - I'm sure it will improve with time.

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12 minutes ago, All Media Lab said:

If you don't want webp in Affinity fine!

To my knowledge, nobody has said they would be opposed to adding WebP export capabilities to Affinity.

Some of us have pointed out that it is only one of a multitude of features people are asking for & for various reasons think that other features should be given a higher priority, but that is far different from saying we oppose its addition.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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1 hour ago, carl123 said:

But it is not the miracle cure to solve all your SEO problems that some people in this thread are claiming it is

Nobody said that webp solves all SEO problems, only that it's an important part of SEO nowadays!

https://growthhackers.com/articles/why-is-google-s-new-image-format-webp-so-critical-to-seo

https://inboundjunction.com/why-webp-is-critical-to-seo#:~:text=Google Knows SEO&text=WebP is no exception.,providing the same quality experience.

https://insanelab.com/blog/web-development/webp-web-design-vs-jpeg-gif-png/

Yes the people of inbound junction don't know what they are talking about! You know it better! They make money with implementing webp everyday like my self.

And a question: Why do you think webp is implemented in all browsers except for Safari? To make nobody using it?

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20 minutes ago, All Media Lab said:

Yes the people of inbound junction don't know what they are talking about! You know it better! They make money with implementing webp everyday like my self.

Inbound junction sells SEO services so they are going to tell anyone that knows crap or very little about SEO whatever they think they can hype up and then get them to hire them to do the work.

It's called Marketing.


Anyway, my mum says I can't play with you anymore today because you are getting too upset and tomorrow me and the dog are going fishing so hopefully you will now have some time to chill.

Goodnight

To save time I am currently using an automated AI to reply to some posts on this forum. If any of "my" posts are wrong or appear to be total b*ll*cks they are the ones generated by the AI. If correct they were probably mine. I apologise for any mistakes made by my AI - I'm sure it will improve with time.

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15 hours ago, carl123 said:

But it is not the miracle cure to solve all your SEO problems

This statement meets the arguing of those against webp. No one else here is claiming that. It is a building block in the overall design of a website. No more but also no less.

 

13 hours ago, carl123 said:

my mum says I can't play with you anymore

Be a good son and tell your mom that the rest of us are extremely happy about her announcement to you.

Edited by NoSi
typo
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  • Staff

This bickering is to stop.

WebP is not yet widely used, despite the widespread browser support and advantages. As an export format it could be reconsidered for implementation if there was significantly higher usage uptake. For now we can only recommend a post-export conversion process as a work-around, sorry.

Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self."  W. L. Sheldon

 

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10 hours ago, All Media Lab said:

you save up to 60% bandwidth compare to the jpg

Unfortunately an example for »pears compared to apples»! The JPG (on the right) quality is much higher and 1.9 to 1.4 MPixel is unfair!

vgl.jpg.38cbfa4c3a028a0256d2bb07c7c6f125.jpg

(both scaled ×4)

 

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“WebP is not yet widely used» is a bit like “electric cars are not widely used”, so Serif doesn’t want to make the planet greener. Other apps read and export, Serif is quiet when users ask.

 

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Regarding how widely WebP actually is used as an image format on websites, it seems @Patrick Connor is correct about that: https://w3techs.com/technologies/history_overview/image_format/all

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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4 hours ago, Oval said:

More than factor 3 in one year!

Yep, all the way from ~0.1% to 0.3%. As of June 16th, that makes it around 200 times less widely used than JPEG or PNG. In fact, between June 1st & June 16th, the use of both JPEG & PNG increased by about the same amount, so about the only format it is 'winning' against is "none."

At that rate, just about everybody will be using autonomous driverless EV's (or hopefully even "greener" mass transit systems) before WebP becomes a widely used raster image format on the web.

I probably won't live long enough to see any of that. ⚰️

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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https://w3techs.com/technologies/history_overview/image_format/all/y

image.png.3e82d33d1f3d579ff3f2bcf4bb87ee60.png

SVG also had a slow start. Imagine the amount of bandwidth consumed by these JPG's over the years - and then subtract 20% or more imagining WebP used instead. Google invested in WebP and tried selling it because it matters if you live in a world of astronomic amounts of data. See the big picture. Pay the price in hardware investments and maintenance. Google does. The initiative is great. Changing global habits (JPG) is unfortunately next to impossible. Until they day of the global bandwidth tax. Then you'll see everyone adapt these size-optimized formats and initiatives with no bickering in sight.

We have 50 mio visits a year - not a lot compared to Google - but shaving of 30% af the JPGs would make a huge difference. I find it hard to believe I couldn't find support for a small file conversion and replacement change request if all browsers supported WebP if all browsers supported it. No double formats, please. There IS a business case. Just not for hobbyists. On our front page alone I can see we could reduce our bandwidth usage with 2.8TB per year if that was the entry page for all visits.

We are btw not just dealing with page loading times - we have a significant number of visitors using mobile phones with bad connections and limited amounts of data. Not everyone lives in London or Seoul. And we have to show photos. As of now we have to use smaller images or unbearable JPG quality to reduce the file sizes. 

  • "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface."
  • Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else.
  • “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius
  • Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver.
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Seeing the big picture also means considering what kinds of internet content tend to use the most bandwidth. If Cisco's projections published in November of 2018 are reasonably accurate, two years from now video content will account for about 80% of that.

Considering the impact of COVID-19 & the emergence of so many new video streaming services, it would not be much of a surprise if we are very close to that number before the end of this year.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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  • Staff

It’s certainly going in the right direction quite quickly

Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self."  W. L. Sheldon

 

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47 minutes ago, NoSi said:

Nope.It's the favorite of sites with high traffic:

https://w3techs.com/technologies/market/image_format

May be that they are the minority of sites but they are the majority of traffic. And their advantage of higher rating, delivery, … , should be supported by image tools, right?

From the article linked:

 ... but mostly by sites with high traffic ...

is from my understanding NOT „It‘s the favorite of sites with high traffic“. 

From the figures it is more like „Only very few are actually using it, and if, these tend to be sites with a lot of traffic“. So for me it seems this may be cutting edge to wrap picture information into a smaller package (like HEIC ...), but not supported by a relevant number of players (like HEIC ...).

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4 hours ago, R C-R said:

Seeing the big picture also means considering what kinds of internet content tend to use the most bandwidth. If Cisco's projections published in November of 2018 are reasonably accurate, two years from now video content will account for about 80% of that.

Considering the impact of COVID-19 & the emergence of so many new video streaming services, it would not be much of a surprise if we are very close to that number before the end of this year.

Google et al. handles both issues. Have to. Like hospitals treating both COVID and cancer patients where remedies for both issues are identified and prioritized. Makes it even more important to understand the big picture.

JPG and PNG reduction is still relevant. Especially for individual websites. We are not concerned about the global bandwidth consumption. We are concerned about extreme load and peaks where we are forced to switch to queue systems or text-only emergency pages. They smaller and faster pages we can serve, the later we cross the red line. And the more visitors our servers can serve.

The big picture is complex.

  • "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface."
  • Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else.
  • “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius
  • Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver.
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Hi @Oval,

Yes you have a point!  It was more ment to show the image system working with webp and jpg fallback.

The link was an old Bootstrap 3 example from 4 years ago, this new link provides the latest version of our full screen image system with the images coming from https://www.imagekit.io . You can do the same test if you want. The optimization is done automatically on the imagekit server and jpg is set on 80% optimization. Notice that the webp's are first recognized as jpg's, but correctly named webp in network of the def tools.  

THE NEW LINK TO TEST WEBp VS JPG

Regards, 

David

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5 minutes ago, All Media Lab said:

The optimization is done automatically on the imagekit server

A good point: What about the many private web pages without the possibilities of that? They can take advantage of webp if they can create it – with other tools than Photo. This speeds up low bandwith/budget websites with e.g. family photo albums (created with several tools except Photo, saving disc space of small hosted server accounts). Just another reason for arguing Photo should have webp export.

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Hi @NoSi,

Yes of course they can and you don't need the fancy JavaScript like I use or imagekit/cloudinary.

Just the plain HTML you see here is one image of a Bootstrap image slider or you could use this code for an image header  on any device including portrait mode on a mobile phone:

<picture>
                <source media="(min-width: 36em)" srcset="assets/Responsive-Images/nieuws/header-news/header-info-webp/header-info-1000px.webp 1000w,assets/Responsive-Images/nieuws/header-news/header-info-webp/header-info-2000px.webp 2000w" type="image/webp"> 
                <source media="(max-width: 36em)" srcset="assets/Responsive-Images/nieuws/header-news/header-info-webp/header-info-phone-800px.webp 800w, assets/Responsive-Images/nieuws/header-news/header-info-webp/header-info-phone-1250px.webp 1250w" type="image/webp">
                <source media="(min-width: 36em)" srcset="assets/Responsive-Images/nieuws/header-news/header-info-jpg/header-info-1000px.jpg 1000w, assets/Responsive-Images/nieuws/header-news/header-info-jpg/header-info-2000px.jpg 2000w" type="image/jpeg"> 
                <source media="(max-width: 36em)" srcset="assets/Responsive-Images/nieuws/header-news/header-info-jpg/header-info-phone-800px.jpg 800w, assets/Responsive-Images/nieuws/header-news/header-info-jpg/header-info-phone-1250px.jpg 1250w" type="image/jpeg"> 
                <img src="assets/Responsive-Images/nieuws/header-news/header-info-jpg/header-info-2000px.jpg" class="img-fluid"/>
            </picture>

The jpg's are created in a custom Affinity Photo export preset and unfortunately the webp's are converted in XnConvert!

If more applications would support webp  it will get more populair.

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To be honest: I use webp to save HTML code. I spend some time to create the webp image in a resolution that looks reasonable everywhere and stays small. Then there is no need for switches, scripts or anything else to create fast pages. Pages have less html code which is traffic, too, and they are very easy to maintain without the hassle of a framework, etc.

The table  Jowday offered shows something quite more interesting:

The 1987 (!!) invented and technically totally outdated "GIF" format still remains with  more than 22% in these "charts". ⸮ Even the web is floded by conservatives… ⸮

I will retire from this discussion because it becomes pointless. 

 

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32 minutes ago, All Media Lab said:

The jpg's are created in a custom Affinity Photo export preset and unfortunately the webp's are converted in XnConvert!

What is so unfortunate about using XnConvert as a (possibly automated) batch converter if one wants to generate WebP content for their web pages?

After all, it is not as if any Affinity app produces ready to use HTML so AP is not going be the only tool used to build web pages.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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38 minutes ago, NoSi said:

I will retire from this discussion because it becomes pointless. 

Agreed. Totally pointless. Me too.

  • "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface."
  • Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else.
  • “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius
  • Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver.
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