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Master Page Re-order :: Naming issues

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On 10/30/2019 at 2:29 PM, AdamW said:

Re-order Master Spreads
Added the facility to re-order Master Spreads using drag drop in the Pages panel. 

Fine, I can re-order the master page icons. But it results in a switch of the masters name if they have default auto-names "Master A", "...B" etc. So if I switch the order of B and C then still the 2nd master (after A) is labeled B and the 3rd is C – means with the order of the masters also their default auto-names become changed. – Confusing. (This does not happen when the masters got custom names.)

Another disturbing occurrence is the naming of copied masters: If I copy a master "Master A" now its copy gets named "Master B" – whereas when I copy a master with custom name "a" its copy is named "a" as well, so I can work with two identical master names, which doesn't seem to b healthy.

 


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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Also noted in the Windows beta forum, with a response from Serif:

But your point about copying masters with custom names is new, I think. And I agree that is dangerous as well as very confusing.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1909 (183623.476), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.514 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.514 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.518 Beta

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Thanks Walt, interesting discussion.

I don't read the 'same name' issue there. So, don't you have in Windows the ability to use an identical master page name more than once? (which occurs in macOS e.g. if you copy a custom named master)


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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I don't like either one of these behaviors, though the duplicate name is slightly more palatable than the name not following the page (while still not optimal).

Consider if you have two master pages with a single element on them: a text box, at the same position and size on each, but with different text formatting applied.  If you allowed the default names, then after dragging to re-order, there would be no visual indication that the swap actually took place.  You could drag them repeatedly and nothing would seem to change.

If Serif is going to stick with this questionable convention of the name not following the page, then they really need to consider at a minimum adding some kind of short animation after the drag to emphasize the fact that they were swapped.  Currently there is nothing to help with this.

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The name should stick no matter what when re-ordering.
In the new "Add pages from file" it will also load the mp's from the external file but to complicate things even more,it also can have the same mp names used.
This should have a prefix related to the external filename.
The renaming should be made easier like either through the layerspanel or rightclick like in the assets panel


 


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Win10(1909)Home / Photo / Designer / Publisher & latest (beta) versions

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34 minutes ago, haakoo said:

The renaming should be made easier like either through the layerspanel or rightclick like in the assets panel

Double-clicking on the name isn't easy enough?

Good points about what happens with the renaming, and the inclusion of masters from another file.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1909 (183623.476), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.514 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.514 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.518 Beta

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Just an addition Walt, to make changes even more easy ;)
 


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Win10(1909)Home / Photo / Designer / Publisher & latest (beta) versions

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Just my 2¢ worth on this but I think the takeaway is if master page names are important for any reason, they should each be manually given a unique, descriptive custom name ASAP after creation.

I think for most users any builtin automatic renaming scheme will probably be just as confusing as the current behavior.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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Quote

Another disturbing occurrence is the naming of copied masters: If I copy a master "Master A" now its copy gets named "Master B" – whereas when I copy a master with custom name "a" its copy is named "a" as well, so I can work with two identical master names, which doesn't seem to b healthy.

This has always been the case though? If you give a master a custom name and duplicate it that custom name is applied to the duplicate. As long as it doesn't cause any issues in the software i'm not sure I see the issue, maybe renaming to "copy of x" would be nice, but this behavior hasn't really received any complaints in 1.7. I would expect it to be renamed after being duplicated regardless.

Regarding the confusion of switching masters with default names that I responded to in the other forum, we are considering changing this (not saying we will, but I've spoken to the developers about the comments here), but again this changes something that some other users might be used to.


Serif Europe Ltd. - www.serif.com

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5 minutes ago, Jon P said:

This has always been the case though? If you give a master a custom name and duplicate it that custom name is applied to the duplicate. As long as it doesn't cause any issues in the software i'm not sure I see the issue

If one uses multiple mp's it isn't obvious on which one you alter the stuff because it will always say the same mp's name in the layers panel and while hovering the normal page in the pages panel and besides if one wants to apply multiple mp's to a single page it even get's more confusing
DoubleMPname.afpub


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Win10(1909)Home / Photo / Designer / Publisher & latest (beta) versions

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54 minutes ago, haakoo said:

If one uses multiple mp's it isn't obvious on which one you alter the stuff because it will always say the same mp's name in the layers panel and while hovering the normal page in the pages panel and besides if one wants to apply multiple mp's to a single page it even get's more confusing
DoubleMPname.afpub

Maybe I am missing something but isn't this kind of confusion easily avoidable by simply giving each master page a unique name? For example, in your file it took me just a few seconds to change the name of one of the two "Master Ax" masters to "Master Bx."


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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12 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Maybe I am missing something but isn't this kind of confusion easily avoidable by simply giving each master page a unique name? For example, in your file it took me just a few seconds to change the name of one of the two "Master Ax" masters to "Master Bx."

Let me say that my posting here in the "beta" section is to sort out things that may confuse new users.
Or tips for development to see stuff through other glasses.

 


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Win10(1909)Home / Photo / Designer / Publisher & latest (beta) versions

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