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AdamW

Affinity Publisher Customer Beta 1.8.0.499

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3 hours ago, R C-R said:

I would like to know if by not having titles turned on you mean that 'customize toolbar' gives you the option of displaying the title or not, & possibly where it is positioned vs. the other toolbar items?

You can actually move it around in the title/toolbar the same way you do the other toolbar items.

 

3 hours ago, R C-R said:

do you still have a choice between "Space" & "Flexible Space" for dividers between toolbar items?

Yes, both are still there.

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5 minutes ago, R C-R said:

 Isn't that what we already have with the Save & Load buttons?

Good point...  reinterpret then as providing a set of "factory presets" to choose from with the Serif keys, the Apple keys, and maybe a few designed to mimic those of other related apps for the benefit of people transitioning who prefer familiar shortcuts rather than learning the ones that are optimized for the new one.

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On 10/30/2019 at 9:29 AM, AdamW said:

Unified Applications Toolbars
Updated layout of toolbars in main application Window. (Mojave or later)

Any chance we could get an option to disable this?  While it does save on vertical space and is not bad in concept, it also reduces the number of toolbar icons we can squeeze in without losing the title display.  I like having more buttons on it than I can fit this way on the smaller display of my laptop, and prefer the older style of a separate toolbar for that reason.

Alternatively, when multiple objects are selected, can you add the distribute buttons to the context toolbar in addition to the alignment ones?  Or at least add the distribution options to the "Alignment" popup from the toolbar and create a similar popup for the boolean operations?  I think that would free up the space I am looking for...

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7 hours ago, R C-R said:

Sorry for so many questions about the toolbar but since I am still considering if I want to upgrade this iMac to Mojave, I would like to know if by not having titles turned on you mean that 'customize toolbar' gives you the option of displaying the title or not, & possibly where it is positioned vs. the other toolbar items?

The customize toolbar options are about the same as they have always been. I just meant that I personally don't turn on the text below the labels. You have the option of removing the file name which I imagine many people on smaller laptop screens will do. I have to wonder if the filename area will be brought to the other Affinity apps? I haven't used the Windows versions I wonder if someone on Windows knows if Photo and Designer 1.8 has it?

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On 11/1/2019 at 9:43 PM, KipV said:

Mojave toolbar buttons are way too small. I also don't see why the persona buttons need to get a lot closer. I am curious about the title area of the document. [Emphasis mine] Will I eventually be able to click on that and be able to change the document title, tags, and location like with many other programs? If so that would be a useful update to the way 1.7 is. I hope these interface improvements get in place before bring the interface over to Photo and Designer. I hope you can also enlarge the tools icons on the left side of the screen as well.

I, too, have a few thoughts on the matter. I'm curious about the thought process at Serif behind using a text input field for something which, well, is most definitely not a text input field.

Again, guys, quit fiddling with stuff which is very much settled down in Apple's HIG or otherwise firmly entrenched in common practice. Please. I honestly don't want to be proven right when I say you are extremely cavalier as to Apple's UI and UX conventions, but you keep doing so time and time again. I know this is just a beta, but… seriously? How did this pass through QA?

macOS already has a method for displaying and editing file names on the title bar, black on light in light mode or white on dark in dark mode, with no extra roundrect backgrounds whatsoever, with the little drop-down arrow to the side; using the equivalent to a search field or Safari's combo bar is definitely not the right way to go about it. The same goes for the convention of putting a dot on the Close button for modified and unsaved files, which goes as far back as Mac OS 10.0. If you want to put an asterisk on each document's tab, fine, but on that field? It's just redundant and, once again, non-standard, IMHO.

Thankfully, that title field is removable, as not only is it the wrong design, it also precludes me from displaying as many buttons as before on my 13'' MacBook Pro… If it wasn't, I'd be asking you to make it so.

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On a different note, there's some general blurriness going on in my non-Retina display (this time it's the StudioLink and the context toolbar buttons), as is sometimes common in Affinity apps. Please fix.

1549982277_Capturadeecr2019-11-02s22_47_15.thumb.png.0c3fb189ec51f2b19b14fe0f2cae7692.png

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14 hours ago, JGD said:

Again, guys, quit fiddling with stuff which is very much settled down in Apple's HIG or otherwise firmly entrenched in common practice. Please. I honestly don't want to be proven right when I say you are extremely cavalier as to Apple's UI and UX conventions, but you keep doing so time and time again. I know this is just a beta, but… seriously? How did this pass through QA?

I actually don't have a problem with it's looks I just want it to function like the other programs and be able to edit the file name data. I think it looks pretty good on a large desktop screen which, I am sure, is the way they planned for people to use it. Laptops always have to deal with not really having the ideal amount of space which is one of the reasons they came out with the sidecar feature.

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4 hours ago, KipV said:

I just want it to function like the other programs and be able to edit the file name data

Yep, this is still severely lacking.

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@admins, It would be nice to have a torrent or magnet link for the very sloooow beta download. I also got 32kb/s and ~4h ETA left.

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On 11/2/2019 at 6:07 AM, KipV said:

Putting the file name in the center of the menu bar keeps it unified with all other Mac apps. If it was moved to the left would be using Windows UI conventions.

Usability Trumps 


2017 15" MacBook Pro 14,3 w/ Intel 4 Core i7 @ 2.8 GHz, 16 GB RAM, AMD 455 @ 2 GB, 512 GB SSD, macOS High Sierra

2018 11" iPad Pro 256 GB, latest iPadOS public beta

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I just want to say that I am thrilled that there is now an indication that the document has been altered and not yet saved by putting an asterisk in the Status field of the Toolbar.

Saved...

1457603990_ScreenShot2019-11-09at10_48_45AM.thumb.png.bf3cf61e257bb4a2c7b38bf6d4b0d2aa.png

Changed...

1341076526_ScreenShot2019-11-09at10_49_06AM.thumb.png.73feb2a7b35430262114e7bb35e37f3c.png


MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012) Mac OS 10.12.6 || Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 10.14.5

Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.7.3 | Affinity Designer Beta 1.7.x.x | Affinity Photo Beta 1.7.x.x | Affinity Publisher Beta 1.8.0.518

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20 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

I just want to say that I am thrilled that there is now an indication that the document has been altered and not yet saved by putting an asterisk in the Status field of the Toolbar.

In earlier versions, there was an unsaved changes indicator too: the "[Modified]" suffix in the document title.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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Just now, R C-R said:

In earlier versions, there was an unsaved changes indicator too: the "[Modified]" suffix in the document title.

I am too used to seeing the dot in the close button, AKA the 'dirty flag'.


MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012) Mac OS 10.12.6 || Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 10.14.5

Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.7.3 | Affinity Designer Beta 1.7.x.x | Affinity Photo Beta 1.7.x.x | Affinity Publisher Beta 1.8.0.518

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The dot in the Close Button used to be the indicator. I'm not sure if that's still the case. It may have changed when Apple decided to automatically save documents as a function of the OS, a few years ago. For instance, in Apple Keynote, there's no such dot any longer. However, there is 'Edited' as a suffix in the file name, as one can see in the capture below (note that DELETE is the file name i've used for this Keynote preso).

image.thumb.png.5f288165413ff6861018fc4a5cc89050.png

PS. I've just checked Apple Motion. There, Apple does make use of the dot in the Close Button.


Affinity Photo/Affinity Designer/Affinity Publisher | macOS 10.15 Catalina on MBP13 2013 | macOS 10.14 Mojave on MBP13 2017

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1 minute ago, Old Bruce said:

I am too used to seeing the dot in the close button, AKA the 'dirty flag'.

So I am curious: what is it about the star (which it appears to be rather than an asterisk) that "thrills" you?

I get that if they had kept the old "[Modified]" suffix there would be a lot less room for the document title in the unified title bar, so they had a good reason to switch to the star as the 'dirty' flag, but it does not really add any new functionality, & at least for my aging eyes on my 27" screen it seems like it would be easy to miss.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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As I said, I have a near Pavlovian response to look for the 'dot' instead of reading [modified]. Plus as someone on the IT Crowd once said "I can't read if I am looking at something"


MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012) Mac OS 10.12.6 || Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 10.14.5

Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.7.3 | Affinity Designer Beta 1.7.x.x | Affinity Photo Beta 1.7.x.x | Affinity Publisher Beta 1.8.0.518

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3 minutes ago, RNKLN said:

The dot in the Close Button used to be the indicator. I'm not sure if that's still the case. It may have changed when Apple decided to automatically save documents as a function of the OS, a few years ago.

When I first started using the Affinity apps back in the dark ages, I was a bit miffed that they were not using the dot in the close button for this. But then I realized that would make sense only for the "Separated Window" UI mode because for any other mode it would indicate that the workspace window had unsaved changes, not the document(s) therein.

In the current retail versions (& I assume in this beta as well), if you click the red close button on the workspace window in the default unseparated display mode with no document open, everything except any floating (undocked) panels you are using disappears! The same thing happens if you click it with a document open that has no unsaved changes -- the document immediately closes & almost the entire UI disappears, even though the app is still running.

Needless to say, this behavior has surprised & confused a number of new (& sometimes not-so-new) users, sometimes to the point of believing that they have somehow broken the app or it has crashed. It is even possible through certain combinations of toggling display modes among full screen, separated & unseparated, and minimized & full height (like full screen except the Dock & Mac menu bar remain visible), to end up with your floating panels stretched to the full width of the screen with no way to undo that other than by manually resizing them & recombining any floating panel groups this process has ungrouped.

So for various reasons, using that red close button can be a troublesome "gotcha" for anyone expecting it to work like in traditional apps that only have a single-window interface.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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57 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

As I said, I have a near Pavlovian response to look for the 'dot' instead of reading [modified]. Plus as someone on the IT Crowd once said "I can't read if I am looking at something"

I understand what you mean but while that response made sense long ago when most Mac apps still put everything in one workspace window, it does not these days because most graphics editing (& several other) apps include toolbars, panels, palettes, maybe a few modal popup windows, & so on in UI elements separate from document workspace window(s).


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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6 hours ago, R C-R said:

In earlier versions, there was an unsaved changes indicator too: the "[Modified]" suffix in the document title.

Which definitely appeared in the title bar more obvious than just Asterix *


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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6 hours ago, RNKLN said:

The dot in the Close Button used to be the indicator. I'm not sure if that's still the case. It may have changed when Apple decided to automatically save documents as a function of the OS, a few years ago.

When auto-save is enabled and the application supports it, the dot does not appear.  If you use the terminal commands to disable auto-save, the dot usually does still appear.

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I've done a bit more research on the behaviour of Apple's own 'creative' apps. After all they're supposed to set the standard. This is what came out of it (Application/UI Style/Solution for 'dirty' file):

  • Keynote/Pages/Numbers (iWork) - Tabbed - Suffix
  • TextEdit - Tabbed - Suffix
  • Preview - Tabbed - Suffix
  • Motion - Windowed - Dot
  • iMovie - Single Document only - No indication

Sample size may be a bit small but it looks like Apple is showing some consistency. When the UI style is Tabbed, they make use of a suffix, when it's Windowed, they use the dot (iMovie looks like a special case since the document is always saved, once a file name has been assigned).

So it looks like Serif has shown a solution for dirty files which is close to Apple's own solution. The UI style of Affinity apps is tabbed, and the indication for dirty files is suffix in the file name. If they follow Apple 100% it should read 'Edited', but, given the issues discussed above around available room in the toolbar, using the Star makes sense (to me at least).


Affinity Photo/Affinity Designer/Affinity Publisher | macOS 10.15 Catalina on MBP13 2013 | macOS 10.14 Mojave on MBP13 2017

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Oh, and the Index panel is still broken in the Beta, just like it is in the current stable version.

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On 11/3/2019 at 1:18 PM, KipV said:

I actually don't have a problem with it's looks I just want it to function like the other programs and be able to edit the file name data. I think it looks pretty good on a large desktop screen which, I am sure, is the way they planned for people to use it. Laptops always have to deal with not really having the ideal amount of space which is one of the reasons they came out with the sidecar feature.

What I said has absolutely zero relation with screen size. Said asterisk could and should be displayed in document tabs, just like in Adobe apps, but on that “status” thingy (which, mind you, is a weird name for that non-complaint UI element, with the weird background and without the clickable proxy icon and disclosure triangle for renaming, as “Status” in WIMP-based operating systems is usually the name given to a dynamic info widget displayed near the lower border of each window), it makes zero sense as the dot on the close button is even more visible.

In fact, it's easier to find and see, as it will probably be always in the left-hand corner; unless, that is, if you use either Separated Mode (and I don't see why anyone would, cumbersome as it is; and yes, I've just checked it out in this latest beta and it still doesn't work properly) or full-screen mode (which would force you to drag your mouse to display the menu and phantom titlebar).

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And speaking of which, as it warrants a separate post: Separated mode is still broken, as new windows still go behind the toolbars when maximised.

Yes, I know this is a longstanding request which I've been hammering Serif about, but I decided that for each new Beta and GM release, I will point out any and all unnecessary inconsistencies with the HIG or otherwise expected and useful behaviour. That is, until they are either fixed or Serif explains us why they are not doing so.

You see, these aren't “bugs” that might reasonably slip through; these are wrong decisions that shouldn't have been made in the first place.

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