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thomaso

Lock children – Context Toolbar / Menu bar / Shortcut / Help

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The command "Lock Children" appears outside of the visible toolbar area and needs to get an extra click on the arrows at the right end to become visible (+ accessible) – even on a 24" monitor.

Screenshot 2019-09-03 at 12.45.25.png

So I wonder if there is a chance to get it moved to a different position?

For instance I would not mind, in situations "Lock Children" is usable at all, not to have the "Picture Frame (Picture Frame)" text at the left edge of this toolbar but rather to be able to use this space for hidden items of the bar instead.

Also I wonder if there would be a way to assign a shortcut key command to access "Lock Children" without that additional mouse clicks. Unfortunately it seems not to be possible because this feature has no menu entry.

Is there any modifier key I can hold when transforming a picture frame to lock its child temporarily – instead clicking the option to become visible and ticking "Lock Children"?

By looking for any alternative use I noticed that the Help, neither on- nor offline, doesn't find it on a search for "Lock Children" or "children" – which appears odd because it is a fundamental feature. Accordingly "Lock Children" is not mentioned in the Picture Frame article.

 

 


macOS 10.14.6, Macbook Pro Retina 15" + Eizo 27" // Affinity preferred in Separated Mode + Merged Windows

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1 hour ago, thomaso said:

Also I wonder if there would be a way to assign a shortcut key command to access "Lock Children" without that additional mouse clicks. Unfortunately it seems not to be possible because this feature has no menu entry.

I support this feature request. A shortcut key also would overcome the somewhat arkward position on the very right of the toolbar.

You can search help for 'lock' and it lists the Move Tool and there you find 'lock children' explained. But no shortcut, though.

d.


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19 hours ago, dominik said:

You can search help for 'lock' and it lists the Move Tool and there you find 'lock children' explained.

Where + how did you search for 'lock'? – Can the Help search results be computer related?


I can read it in the article about 'Move Tool' as you mention but I seem not to be able to find it with the search ...

... in the app Help (offline) I don't get the Move Tool as result:

1765880864_help-lockchildren1.jpg.aa897064320b1b662dd1e63f91545676.jpg

... and in the online Help I don't get any result for 'lock' nor 'children':

1273466414_help-lockchildren2en.jpg.7e7c70502a630fb86c145f91bb5548c9.jpg

886538710_help-lockchildren3en.jpg.bb6a56f64969e0e38757b11bd566f221.jpg


... and in German for 'schützen' I get only 'Save':

1765940810_help-lockchildren2de.jpg.5f07d0b1026fffc66ebf51338fe50125.jpg

... and for 'untergeordnete Elemente' some results but not the 'lock children' (Untergeordnete Elemente schützen':

1415253804_help-lockchildren3de.thumb.jpg.cddb31a48be444739f4e18d9f74f1704.jpg

 


macOS 10.14.6, Macbook Pro Retina 15" + Eizo 27" // Affinity preferred in Separated Mode + Merged Windows

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2 hours ago, thomaso said:

Where + how did you search for 'lock'? – Can the Help search results be computer related?

First off, I have set APub to 'English UK'.

I just open the built in help and type in 'lock'. In the search results I find the Move Tool. Since I know that 'lock children' is part of the Move Tool I kept reading there.

But you are right the word 'lock' is not listed in the search results itself.

BTW, I'm on Windows.

d.


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15 minutes ago, dominik said:

First off, I have set APub to 'English UK'.  (...)  I'm on Windows.

Aha, that might make the difference in help content + search results: To me in macOS there is no 'UK' app version, just 'English' and 'English (United States)'.

896074956_help-applanguages.jpg.440b9fe95f88d311b2d846865053fb84.jpg


– But still I wonder why the Online Help Search doesn't search & find ALL text, as if there would be a predefined, limited list of search terms filtering in background and missing 'lock' and 'children' (and their German versions). Since these keywords are in bold style within the article I'd expect at least all bold text would be included in the search & find lists. Strange.


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5 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Aha, that might make the difference in help content + search results: To me in macOS there is no 'UK' app version, just 'English' and 'English (United States)'.

896074956_help-applanguages.jpg.440b9fe95f88d311b2d846865053fb84.jpg

This is strange:

english-uk.thumb.png.afb54f9e3ebab780b1f69b77f9a70828.png

 

I think it's worth bringing this to notice of Serif staff. It's not a big thing but should help to make help better.

d.


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> I think it's worth bringing this to notice of Serif staff. It's not a big thing but should help to make help better.

I agree. – Unfortunately it seems since the retail AfPub version there is no real focus or interest at all in issues with the help. Whereas during beta there was at least a permanent thread about localisation issues (help literally excepted) it doesn't exist in the bugs forum for the retail version.

Also I noticed some single help issue forums topics which didn't seem to be noticed by Serif. The most disturbing issue in the Help – both off- and online – still is the missing illustrations (UI screenshots + image captions) in all other languages than English, which is especially sad for articles about workspace, panels in particular. For instance Panels > Color Panel does explain 'how to get the noise slider' only in the missing screenshot info graphic caption "(C) Switch to opacity/noise"

https://affinity.help/publisher/English.lproj/index.html?page=pages/Panels/layerFxPanel.html?title=Effects panel

https://affinity.help/publisher/de.lproj/index.html?page=pages/Panels/clrPanel.html?title=Das Panel "Farbe"


EDIT: I just noticed the first link doesn't guide to color panel, though color panel shows that URL. So this is what I get (and whats missing in non-english help)

1690581616_help-non-englishmissingillus.thumb.jpg.1dc4e308178dc971c0f3990fd4e634ee.jpg
 

 


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1 hour ago, thomaso said:

Unfortunately it seems since the retail AfPub version there is no real focus or interest at all in issues with the help. Whereas during beta there was at least a permanent thread about localisation issues (help literally excepted) it doesn't exist in the bugs forum for the retail version.

I am not sure about that but don't have proof of the opposite :)

Maybe you want to post a short notice in the bugs forum with a link to this thread? Your findings and descriptions could help moderators to track these bugs down. 

Cheers,
d.


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1 hour ago, dominik said:

I am not sure about that but don't have proof of the opposite :)

Let's see what happens: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/100787-help-–-not-showing-non-english-content-on-offline/


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Now BACK TO THE TOPIC ... 9_9

So, I hope some others would like easier access to the "Lock children" feature. Either by a different position in the context toolbar or by a menu entry (to enable a shortcut).


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2 minutes ago, Barrowman said:

would it not just be easier to (...) Locking/unlocking layer.

Easier? That would a.) need to click a layer or, even with shortcut key, to select an object first and b.) affect this 1 layer only. – Whereas with a general keyboard shortcut, regardless of a selected object or layer, all children can get locked/unlocked without any mouse action. This works for all layers and objects (like it does currently).

So it depends on the situation:

– If I do know that some objects should not (e.g. never) but others should (e.g. always) have their child locked, then the layers lock option can be easier.
– If I don't know yet which object (or if any at all) should have its child locked/unlocked then the menu/shortcut option may be easier as a general document/application wide setting.


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2 hours ago, greyscale said:

Actually, shouldn't a Picture Frame automatically have locked children? Is it me, or does that seem like it should be the default? 

Consider that "locked" means the image gets kind of separated from its parent picture frame, so if you move a frame with it child locked then it's content (the image) doesn't move but sticks at its place while the frame may move. Therefore the default should be a not locked state, to experience the picture frame and its content as 1 unit.


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2 hours ago, greyscale said:

I disagree. That’s how an image should behave. An image inside of a frame is something else. 

I'm still not sold on how Affinity handles content in frames, but default locked children doesn't make sense. If I imagine an actual, physical picture frame, it would be quite weird to move that frame from one shelf in my house to another and have the picture remain where it was. The two should travel as a single unit by default with manipulation of either done via other tools or modifiers.

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I'm coming over from InDesign, which has (unusually for Adobe) a very simple, intuitive way of handling images inside of frames. Children are locked by default, resizing a frame therefore crops the image, and I can select the image itself by clicking on the circular area in the center. Clicking on the image, but outside the circular area, allows me to move the image and frame together (effectively temporarily unlocking the child), and holding down a modifier key lets me resize image and frame together.

Cropping images and moving frames are absolutely basic functions in page layout, and there are way too many clicks needed in Affinity's current setup.

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Oh, I'm also a user of InDesign since it's beginning and I agree they've got a nice way of doing things. But I think we're confusing the term "lock children." In Affinity "lock children" means the image within the frame is locked to the page/canvas. You can move the frame all over and the image stays put. What you're referring to, I think, is how an Affinity picture frame uses its placement properties to dynamically scale and position the image within the frame as the frame is manipulated. Which, as an InDesigner, I find frustrating. I've taken to not using picture frames at all, but rather just shapes as vector crops. There are limitations, but I feel like I have more control on how everything interacts. That might change if Affinity could give me some key commands for centering and resizing images in frames like InDesign does.

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2 hours ago, greyscale said:

InDesign (...) Children are locked by default,

Note, this lock works different in ID than in Apub: if you move an image in ID you move its frame + its content. This behavior is achieved in APub with the not-locked state by default. In this point both apps work vice versa so to say (why I prefer in APub the un-locked default / wrote my recent post).

Consider that in APub – different to ID – you may have an image without having a parent frame object, enabling certain workflows which aren't able in ID at all. So a comparison of both apps in just 1 aspect may appear not quite useful – regardless of whether a user wants to make use of such an additional option or not.

Personally I was satisfied + would prefer the ID way of a forced 'auto-frame' in APub, too, and it was discussed in the feature request forum a few times. So, as long APub works with its additional option of not framed images, this topic doesn't question APubs entire picture frame concept but just tries to improve the current UI with easier access to its lock state setting.


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Thanks, prophet and thomaso, for sharing your opinions. I'm still new to Publisher, so I'm not going to dig in anymore. Since I'm after something like InDesign's behavior at the moment, perhaps the solution is to avoid picture frames altogether and use vector crops instead, as prophet suggests. Then I can branch out and explore the Picture Frame option.

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9 hours ago, greyscale said:

I'm coming over from InDesign, which has (unusually for Adobe) a very simple, intuitive way of handling images inside of frames. Children are locked by default, resizing a frame therefore crops the image, and I can select the image itself by clicking on the circular area in the center.

I realize this is a matter of personal preference. In my case, I have always been annoyed about this aspect of InDesign's approach to images. 9 times out of 10, I would have been happier if I could just paste an image without a frame. That's what I usually do in Publisher, so I actually don't use frames much.

It partly pertains to the nature of the source image, and that in turn will be influenced by the kind of publishing one does. Ours is rather simple, and typically the entire graphic is needed rather than needing to crop. An example might be a diagram or a chart, where the graphic is content that needs to be preserved. Thus, we adjust the layout for the image versus the image to the layout. Other niches of publishing might naturally tend the other way, so at the very least, I can see the motivation for more than one feeling on the subject, even if we ignore for the moment the simple matter of personal preference.

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We're getting off topic a bit, but I agree @garrettm30 that while are use cases depending on personal and industry needs, Publisher seems to…not really ignore, but think so differently about things that it makes one scratch one's head sometimes.

InDeisgn has page layout in mind with the assumption that a placed image will likely need a frame by default. It doesn't presume to know anything about how the frame will be used, it just makes the frame the size of the image. It's the designer's job to size and position the frame itself and use direct select arrow, fitting key commands, etc. to size and position the image within the frame.

Publisher, perhaps due to being built as an "extension" of sorts of Designer and Photo, has just the object/layer concept in mind and placed images are just images. If the designer wants to have an image in a frame, they either have to make the frame first, or convert the image into a frame after it's placed. Then Pub makes a great deal of assumptions about how you want that image placed in relationship to the frame (scaling, anchoring), assumes you'll want to lock that relationship down as you manipulate the frame, and doesn't provide an easy way to change that relationship with fitting key commands.

In summary: InDesign knows what I'm up to when I place an image, but lets me control the image/frame relationship. Pub doesn't know what I'm up to when I place an image. Then, when I make a frame, it assumes much more control than I want it to.

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+1  for shortcut or global right mouse contextual click


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