Well yeah, I can mutilate a file and upload it, how do you want me to upload? It's a 136 MB file. I've gone ahead and uploaded it
I'm using Krita 4. And yes, my computer is economic, cheap, not really impressive.
It's an Asus. Intel i3-5010U 2.10 GHz, 6 GB RAM, 64 Bit,
Well your processor IS better than mine. So far my channel has been centered on low cost. So my computer has been low cost.
I'm very familiar with Photoshop and its various features. I've even made some tools for it with the action pallet: https://www.deviantart.com/art/ACTIONS-Augustine-Tools-191441357
I'm actually hoping I might be able to do something similar with A Photo. I believe... they call it Macros...
Yeah, I'm sure you mean like this
In Krita, this was an impossible task, even a medium sized brush would lag out the entire system.
Well I used a good number of adjustment layers. But as I understand it, every layer is treated like a smart object, and probably needs to be rasterized in A. Photo. And by and large I used masks a way of saving selections. THE way I know of so far in A Photo).
Well, eventually, I supposed I'll get my hands on Clip Studio Paint. But at the moment, I just spend $200 on software. I'll be spending $1,000+ on a new computer. And an additional $300 on Cacani. And my channel has been centered on free and affordable stuff... An additional $200 isn't something that I am able to afford. Sketchbook Pro, Krita, and A. Photo should do the trick.
I am familiar with the software, never used it. From what I understand it does brush stabilization and has perspective tools. I'm not sure how advanced the perspective tools are. But I'm sure for $5 it's worth it.
The thing is, Lazy Nexumi shouldn't be a scape goat for commercial software to NOT put in a stabilization options and perspective tools into their own program. But for right now, it's a competent ghetto rig for what software developers refuse to do for themselves.
Drawing in perspective is a very traditional skill and lacking the proper perspective tools, such as an assistant tool is glossing over the traditional skills, relying on perspective transformations and photographs in order to make the perspective for them as a crutch. And I'm sure that's how using photo templates started, a lack of perspective tools in the software. There's nothing wrong with it. But I'm completely in agreement, people should know the traditional skills, like perspective. Thus it's best to have an assistant tool.
Although Kim Jung Gi is excellent at just eyeballing his perspective, that's a skill most people just don't have. And when working with a table top graphics tablet, it's not entirely always possible to just eyeball perspective without the necessary tools. And in my case, hardware also prevents me from even being able to see the vanishing point at all times because, in order to keep Krita from completely lagging out, being zoomed in at a comfortable level reduces the lag.
I'm not really quite sure how I can understand that statement... the Assistant tools help create a traditional workflow when compared to Perspective transformations and photo templates and etc. And quite a bit of the concept art that I'm seeing these days, without a photo template, are landscapes, because they don't have an assistant tool or a photo, showing that traditional skills are dying off.
And to keep a 4 Point Continuous Curvilinear Perspective image's continuity correct, it's best to have 6 fisheye perspective assistants, otherwise it becomes an ungodly mess.
I disagree. Without assistant tools, artists don't even bother learning perspective, something you kind of mention later on. And it sucks drawing pencil to Paper with a ruler. Assistant tools are the ideal way of drawing in perspective, especially if you need things measured out. And you WILL need at least somethings measured unless you want the pillars of buildings none aligned, A bench to be the size of a full grown person when measured to what it would be off in the distance. Things like that.
I've never studied perspective more than when I have assistant tools.
That's great and all but drawing in perspective IS the traditional form of an artists work. I don't have a screen tablet, so some of what you're suggesting isn't even possible, unless I get all of my perspective work PERFECT with a thumbnail first. An assistant tool is essential given some of the hardware at our disposal. I understand there's the phrase "It's not the tool, it's the person using it." but if you're using a tool that's not very good at a particular task then it's expected that the person using it will take longer to complete the task, especially if all the other tools require you to eyeball everything.
Okay, well there's a ton of different workflows that artists adopt, like this one.
After twelve minutes in, he does tons of selections and uses the fill tool. I know this because I've taken his Skillshare course. I'm interested in all sorts of different types of workflows. And the workflow you're describing sounds like the Proko and thumbnailing technique listed above.
I DO feel I'm in a better place to do that type of workflow, now that I have Sketchbook Pro and A. Photo. And I'll be in an even BETTER position to use Krita in that workflow when I eventually purchase this newer computer. However, just by tinkering with this workflow, I don't find getting anatomy and poses its this techniques strong suite.
For example, I absolutely hate the pose and anatomy the final image in this video (just look at the thumbnail. Yeah... this workflow's good for environments. But look that this dude's torso in this thumnail his ribcage is all messed up. He has no calf. Something's wrong with his butt. The front of his neck makes the neck WAY too thick. The woman in the distance looks nice, but then again, she takes up less than a 10th of the pixels:
Also Keinan Lafferty even states that it's not for building good poses and anatomy.
I'm not apposed to this workflow. In fact, I look forward to using it. But it seems like it DOES have weaknesses.
Well yeah, I'm starting to peak my head out from under the comic book page approach for the very first time, because I'm starting to adopt a very digital workflow and I'm now trying to build up my youtube channel.
Destructive editing, is what you're saying. Only that usually means doing the same task multiple times. In my NobleFrugal Studio series, I draw out a rather large background and that's exactly what I had to do.
When I mentioned the hair I was more-so talking about refining the selection for the tiny strands of hair. Suppose you need to move the character and switch up the composition. Suppose your boss told you he wants it that way. In Krita, that would be impossible without some repainting.
But most selections should be done with a CTRL+Click on a layer and maybe a quick lasso to add or remove part of the selection.
Well -- I have more than 183 videos. A good chunk of them I'm using Krita. You tell me if I'm doing major photo editing techniques with Krita. Initially, sure, I was definitely treating it like photoshop. But then gradually loosened up so that I could actually get some work done. In the attached file (which took forever to mutilate for you btw, I used some gradient maps, but plenty or artists use gradient maps in coloring their grayscale images.
I'm not familiar with Sports references.
... I know what you're talking about. I've discussed it at length in my videos.
Fair enough. I'm more interested in making a crap load of images. Creating an impressive portfolio that can land me in any of the areas that I'm interested in. If I approach a concept design job, I'll already have images for it. If I want a job doing comic book art, I have images for it. If I want a job in 2D animation, I'll have animations for it.
I'll look at some videos on Corel Painter then.
It depends on what you are after
Well, suppose you're painting an image that has a mountain, a tree, a bunch of walls going different directions.
Being able to quickly select each wall and applying a mask can quickly allow you to just paint instead of having to worry about if you're painting inside the lines. Same with the tree, after you're done painting the walls and the mountain, the tree, all its branches, and leaves, coloring it would be much easier if it's a mask is around the border of it so that you can just focus on the tree without having to worry about accidentally screwing up your work with the mountains and the walls. And sure, you can merge these things when you're done with them so that it's all on one layer.
You have examples? Let's put it that way.
Yeah, with what I've been liking up above with the Proko and Thumbnailing video, I'm sure I'm familiar with what you're talking about.
Okay, it took me a while to find this video again. But this dude is the best that I've seen at what you're describing. I would argue that this technique in this video isn't traditional techniques. He's stealing perspective from a photo:
But is guy also seems to do some line art at 56 minutes in:
Thing is, right now, to keep my youtube channel going, I need to be a one man band. I need to make my concept art, I need to make the story board, I need to do my own animating. The entire production is made by me. I'm not QUITE at the stage where I'm working on a cartoon yet. I'm just doing art practices and trying out different workflows.
Just being able to refine the selection to be able to pick up things like hair. That tool. It makes it so that you don't spend hours making a careful selection. In the video in the OP, I really didn't do careful selections. I was just figuring out the selection tools. Still figuring out the selection tools. If making a decent selection takes more than 1 minute, which it shouldn't take even 1 minute, but if it takes more than a minute, then you don't have the selection tools you need. If you can't save selections in the Channels, you don't have the selection tools you need.
Just pressing CTRL and clicking on a layer and getting all the opaque layers -- that's a nice selection. Being able to merge your layers but saving a selection for later, that takes the speed of CTRL+Click, that's a nice selection.
Financially going from Maya, to Zbrush, to some other program to pose and animate your character -- that's expensive. It's not a problem of jumping from program to program to complete tasks that's the problem. It's that the industry expects you to be made of money in order to work in the industry. Eventually you wind up using seriously out dated software and then you have to spend more than $2,000 just on software. Blender being a one stop show for everything a life saver, it's commercially supported, and the free price tag is appealing.
That's good to know.
Right now, I'm more focused on learning to teach. Once I've made enough little indie projects I can start teaching on youtube.
My main focus right now is my youtube channel. And the software you've discussed is way too much money. The industry is way over bloated with one software for this, another for that, and another for this other thing. Just one piece of software should do the trick. And like you said, once you learn one piece of software, transitioning isn't too difficult. Like transitioning from Photoshop to A. Photo. I already know there's not going to be a very long learning period for me.
If my channel gets endorsed by photoshop, yeah sure, I'll use photoshop when they send me free copies of the software with an permanent license. The subscription based system they have is stupid and tells me Adobe needs to be replaced.
I'm very familiar with Photoshop.
As I see it, if I'm freelancing, how are they to what I'm animating with?
I'm interested in concept art and animation. I don't really care too much about entering into the Gaming industry itself. Gaming wasn't really one of the things I listed.
As far as freelancing goes, yeah -- it's tough but if I build my youtube audience up enough, have a number of products for sale, I won't necessarily have to depend on going from job to job. It'd be nice, but not necessary.
I figure the Animation industry will want to see my animations. If they're good, they're good. If they don't want to hire me as a Freelancer, then that's cool. I can just focus on making more videos and products for my youtube channel.
No, I just think depending on a photograph, or a rough 3D model, or perspective warps to do the heavy lifting with the perspective work on a 2D image is far from traditional, and learning the traditional techniques is something you mentioned earlier as something artists need to focus on, and it's amateur when they don't.
Again, the background work that people make without an assistant tool without a photo, without a 3D model, and without perspective warps are typically landscapes rather than urban and city scapes, because they can't make a real looking city worth looking at, fudging their perspective work, breaking the traditional rules, and coming out with a semi wonky image. So even if they didn't originally steal from a photograph, they do it later on in the workflow to fix the mistakes that they couldn't fix by hand because they're either not very good or because there isn't an assistant tool. A work around doesn't make good on an absent tool especially when there's no reason why that tool wouldn't just be there to begin with.
And when was the last time you saw them making a panoramic image? Would that NOT be extremely helpful for a 3D modeler? That way you don't just give him a 60 degree cone of vision of a scene but the entire scene as a 360 image? I can do that, with an Assistant tool. I SERIOUSLY doubt anyone you've worked with have done that unless they stole a panoramic image off the internet and used it as a photo reference.
When Image editing (photo compositing) there's no reason to use perspective tools. Because you're using 100% photos. It's the direct opposite actually. And when making an image with a 3D model template or a photo template or when bringing in photos when the image is nearly finished it's just to cover for the fact that there aren't any REAL perspective tools. It's bringing in the Image editing into your workflow rather than actually making a proper image with traditional techniques to begin with.
Not being able to save your file when you click "SAVE" and having your autosave immediately get overwritten after you open your image isn't a failing on my part.
That is the problem. That maybe, just maybe, not all what you see as a failure... is such. And that..,."maybe", ...your approach to concept art making is not perhaps the most usual or not even the most effective to get a royal piece of art to WOW certain professional audience...Or at least, not an experienced art director in a high end company.
Not being able to save your file on occasion and having your autosave immediately get overwritten is an objective problem with a piece of software.
My workflow has somewhat been guided by my hardware which, remember, lags out pretty heavily sometimes. And even still, my workflow isn't too different from other profressionals, linked above.
I'm going through a variety or workflows.
Version 3.x or v. 4.x ? Also, can be that you have a very slow, overloaded disk, or you defragmented your disk last time before the year 2000... OR... very little RAM... these are other reasons why am curious to check one of your critical files.
4.0 and yup.
I know. This dude's a professional using Krita. It's good for kids and parents that can't afford much but not limited to just that.
I keep getting the impression that though I'll agree with you it's not registering, as if we're talking past each other for some reason... I agree, Krita is a solid program. But it's not fitting with every workflow that I'd like to do, especially the workflows you're mentioning on my hardware. It's like you expect me to have done every workflow humanly possible in one image. It's fine, I can take the critique, but some of what you're saying seems to be contradictory. You mention how Krita's a painter's tool, so it has an assistant tool. But Photoshop, even when used as a painter's tool, doesn't have a failing when it doesn't have an assistant tool. And it's actually my problem.
I suppose if I spent time getting the perspective right on a thumbnail first, I could get some moderately decent perspective, and use photos to improve it later on. But by and large, most concept artists seem to be relying on the photos too much. An assistant tool would do wonders to improve it.
... Again, my target audience (although it wound up being 25-30 year old people) has been towards kids with parents that can't afford much. So I've recommended Krita. I don't believe I've ever said that Krita is exclusively for kids. I did mention this in my previous message. I mentioned the kids because that's the audience I've been trying to attract. "Hey kids! You can get a $45 graphics tablet and a cheap freaking computer like mine and be up and running with a free program called Krita." But at this point, I want more than just a painter's program. But I'm still thinking of price. What can the kids buy? What can prepare the kids for the future? Even if in 20 years Adobe is still king of the Image Software industry, that's fine, Affinity will prepare them well enough to use Photoshop. I'm thinking like a teacher.
Again, Krita failing to save a file after going File>save is an objective MAJOR problem. Even if it's a rare occurrence. Krita immediately saving over your autosave when opening your file Objectively defeats the purpose of an autosave. There's nothing wrong with the critique.
Okay, here's a previous video in the same series. Here's some interesting information about your feedback:
At 6:42 I say the following: "You can make a grayscale image with doing a bunch of line work the way that you see me doing it right now, I guess, but what seems like the most effective way is where you start out with a really big brush and you make some really appealing silhouettes. And once you accomplish that, you then start gradually making your brush smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and refine the detail gradually as the brush gets smaller and smaller and smaller, until the brush is fairly small and you're actually doing your line work as the last step. And in the end it winds up having a lot more photo realism, and so I wish I did that approach at a gray scale image, rather than going after the line work first. But you know, we live and we learn."
At 8:23 "... Seems like when you work with a big brush in krita, the whole computer lags out for every single brush stroke. So it just seems like I should get the thumbnail looking really good, and I actually initially tried to do silhouettes but I tried a particular work flow with it that didn't work for me. I tried the Silhouette thing initially... but crap happens. I should have just persisted until it started working for me. But I have to output a video every week, and sometimes that pressure kind of influences the workflow that I wind up doing. But that's fine because even still, that puts me into a position that I want to be in with this series, which is to be uncomfortable, and having a license to experiment. And sometimes that experiment becomes unpredictable. And that's fine. "
At 7:56 "If you only draw things that make you feel comfortable, it's just because you're in a comfort zone and you're just using that comfort zone as a crutch and you're never going to get better. You need to be willing to experiment. Give yourself the license to experiment. And allow yourself to be scared about the outcome of an image. At least that's my opinion. I really believe that's a good way to look at your artwork and improve."
At 19:37 "Now some of the reason why, earlier on in the video, you didn't see me making a lot of selections is because in photoshop you're able to easily save your selection in the channels tab, which is connected to the layers panel." my main issue is not being able to save selection and not being able to refine your selection. Nothing having to do with "careful selections." You can use both of those techniques super fast in photoshop and AF. Being able to do this allows you to merge layers confidently without cluttering up your layers panel. And you're able to still keep the selection of a layer that no longer exists independently with a CTRL+Click. You save your selection with a CTRL+click. You retrieve your selection with a CTRL+click. I don't think there's any problem with that with a painterly workflow, masking stuff, even with tape on dried paint isn't unheard of. With all the links above, they're constantly making new layers. Well... I like to be a bit more organized. Once I finish something I like to sift through the layers, find out what makes what, merge them. Ctrl Click, fill in Channels, selection saved. Especially if I merged a layer into something something else and I later need to work on it independently. If the selection is saved, it doesn't matter if it's merged into another layer. But if you don't have a history brush, or even WITH a history brush, saving your selections isn't a bad idea. Because even though you're working destructively, you're still working selections that allows you to work on the various parts of your image if you've merged it into everything else.
23:26 "I know that Krita isn't geared towards just being a Photoshop clone. That's what it was initially, but eventually the team behind it wound up deciding that their main focus is making it the ultimate painting tool. And that's cool. I agree with them. That's an admirable persuite. I use the program for a reason. It's a great painting tool. But, there needs to me more none destructive editing things" like being able to save your selections. "Again there are things in Krita that are better than Photoshop".
Hmmm... avoid irritation when finding a workflow issue, it ain't productive (same as in human relationships), is a bad habit... don't do the same thing over and over again, change the technique, find a workaround. Pro advice :p. 90% of critics to software tools are due to the total inability of an user to adapt to a different UI and work philosophy than what they already know and are used to. But our brain is WAY more flexible than we pretend it to be. This is CRUCIAL for handling Blender (or Gimp/Inskcape) . If you are aiming to learn Blender, or 3D in general,this should be a key concept...Blender is very different to most UIs out there, for example.
Again, 4 stable version has received improvements in that specific area, I'm curious to know if happened to you in 4.x.
8 hours ago, orphanlast said:
Really? Hmm. I'm thinking Sketchbook pro, for me... Dunno, don't have TOO much experience with it.
I understand the frustration bit, but not being able to save your file in Krita 4? Losing work? In a professional setting you have deadlines. Losing an hour's worth of work? That's an hour wasted that they'll either not pay you for or fire you for, or maybe you'll have to do at home.
Well -- even with the Painterly workflow you're talking about, you lay down a dark gray blob, you use assistant tool to erase the edges of the blob to look like a gemetric shape. you CTRL+click the layer to select it. You get the selection tool and remove a few bits of the selection. Select a lighter value, and brush in with a feathered brush a nice gradient. And now you have a geometric shape with two sides, one in light, one in dark. I'm not talking about overly complex selections that take forever to make. And when using the big brush technique, you're still reshaping things all the time. Only with the assistant tool you'd be reshaping them more accurately into geometric shapes.
You don't even need to go that complex with the selection, you can draw a really thick line right next to the corner of a geometric shape, ctrl+click it, ctrl+shift+I for inverse and then brush in a gradient for the bright side of the geometric object. That way you're always using big brushes and not swapping it for the lasso. That way's probably actually faster. Then you delete these inverse-line-selection-layers.
There's nothing wrong with being well rounded.
And designer just has a nice text bubble shape that you can use and reuse, and reshape different sizes. Seems like less work to me in designer. And yeah, I'm sort of working on a comic right now. I'm trying to nail down the story at the moment.
Fair enough. I'm figuring it out. I'm getting well rounded. I'm trying out various workflows.