MattyWS

his one today when I asked if the Blender institute would ever consider working on other softwares to compliment Blender, specifically an image editing application.

"If they would just decide to have affinity running on linux they would take over" - Pablo from Blender

yea, this is probably the best idea to just ignore him. On a side note I just found out that World Machine works flawlessly on Linux via wine with zero hiccups or drawbacks, so yea the last remaining thing for me that Linux doesn't have is a decent replacement for photoshop/illustrator. for my regular workflow. Or rather, Gimp and Inkscape exist but they're...not great to use and I would rather have the likes of Affinity Photo and Affinity Designer (or at the very least I can just use Photoshop CS6 on Linux but thats gross)

Naming a bunch of old failed software as a reason for Linux failing is just fundamentally flawed logic. There's plenty of thriving software on Linux. Stop fear mongering for no reason. If you don't wan't Linux support go elsewhere and stop wasting this request thread.

Please, you can use this same argument about Affinity Photo with PSD support, which isn't perfect so of course We ShOuLdN't UsE iT with that logic. Why do you use Affinity Photo? it's super niche, barely anyone uses it, Photoshop is mainstream and 99% of professionals will be using that.. Just like Windows vs Linux. Also, if you have nothing but complaints about Linux, why do you even use it for the last 25 years (which I question, since you seem to have a lot of perceptions about Linux which are just bandwagon comments from people that don't use Linux)?

This could be the difference because linear/gamma. Are you colour picking from images that are using sRGB or not?

Not everyone has to like an OS for it to be good though. It's clear LondonSquirrel has some bad memories about Linux. I have bad memories of Mac. Half the software I need doesn't run on Macs, that's not a good argument not support Macs so it shouldn't be a good argument against Linux either. Personal opinions aside Linux is very capable and there are people that want to use it but simply can't because the software we want doesn't exist on it yet. Thats the point. Inb4 LondonSquirrel makes some tiring comment about 1% in a market waiting to happen or how much more he hates Linux from 10 years ago.

Well those are the only two options these days... Apple phones or every other phone which is based on the Linux kernal.

I guess I haven't really thought about it but the same way I integrate them with my work Windows desktop. I use dropbox*, I have shared folders on my windows and linux computers via my network. I use Barrier to be able to use my mouse/keyboard across my computers which happens to be cross platform for windows, linux and mac. When I worked at Rare and used Affinity photo to hand paint some ship livaries I actually used my ipad with windows and ipad having dropbox, so I would save the psd in there, open it on my ipad, paint the textures with my apple pencil then hit save and it was already on my pc by then. This works the same way on Linux too if you could use affinity photo. I dunno what LondonSquirrel is going on about, I've not had any issues using linux in this way compared to Windows, since dropbox works the same way. I also use Signal for personal messaging which is on every OS (as well as other various things I use tend to be cross platform services like discord, Slack, Blender, Firefox etc) so I dunno... I guess my answer is I haven't needed to do anything extra with Linux than I have with Windows in this case. *substituted dropbox a few days ago for my own self hosted Nextcloud server which works in the same way and again, has an app across all devices.

I did, that's because you can just convert the file to run on debian based OS's, which is what I did. So it was a non issue for me. But wait, you say, people don't want to faf around doing that(!) Well, it's a good thing there are universal packages that run on all distros. https://www.makeuseof.com/how-to-convert-between-linux-packages-using-alien/ Ultimately, developers seem to do just fine making applications for linux. How do Applications like Blender work on every distro if it's so super difficult as you say? Why would Serif be any less competent at this?

well you're wrong about that you can just get the native linux versions of the applications from the substance website if you have a license like I do.

Yet there are similar products that didn't fail, so what makes the softwares you mentioned failures the fault of Linux and not their own? I'll see if I can get this out of the way because I've repeated this a lot now; developers don't make software because users don't use the platform because developers don't make software because users don't use the platform because developers don't make software because users don't use the platform because developers don't make software because users don't use the platform because developers don't make software because users don't use the platform because developers don't make software because users don't use the platform because developers don't make software because users don't use the platform because developers don't make software because.... Here's my take; It's not too small to be bothered with, it's too small because no one bothered with it. Saying not many people use it is (again IMO) not a valid point for the reasons I've just mentioned here.

I wouldn't say I'm emotional about it, but I'm certainly passionate about not having to use Windows. I've dedicated a lot of my time to ensuring my own privacy, security and reasonable anonymity going forward in a way that doesn't inconvenience me, this was a choice I've made because I believe those three things should be the default and Microsoft doesn't. Apple is far better with this than MS but I chose Linux because I get on with it more than MacOS (though I have every other apple product, iphone, ipad, watch, tv etc). In the end it comes down to the fact that people should be able to choose the OS which is best for them and not be forced to use an OS they don't want to. Linux by default is secure and private. The only reason I've not been inconvenienced by a lack of photoshop alternatives yet is because as a 3D artist I'll typically go to Substance Designer before I go to Phototoshop for texture packing, and I'll go to Substance Painter before photoshop for hand painted textures (both of which are on linux) and for most other things I can get away with using Krita for any hand painted 2D stuff. The inconvenience will come later when I need to use something like photoshop for touchups because I don't get on with Gimp (I've really tried). When it comes down to it, Affinity photo and designer is a 'nice to have' for me more than a necessity but I'd still 1000% pay for it if it came to linux as I'm sure a lot of people would, since there just is no real competition for that kind of thing on Linux for professionals. There should be though.

not developing for linux because of a small market share is shortsighted IMO and I've said exactly why that is a few times here A market only exists after developers make a market usable... That's serif in this case. I don't know about the last 25 years of linux but I do know about the last 5 or so years and Linux is just as capable as windows and mac, just as simple to use (I find macOS more difficult to use than something like POP, Mint or ZorinOS). Anyway if you really want to argue numbers then Serif should only develop for windows. MacOS holds a tiny share as well. Thats bad because no one wants to see a monopoly or duopoly. People are only using windows and mac because of software support. I don't want to be forced to use either of those. No one wants to be forced to use an OS. Where are you getting stats that developing for linux results in failure? Lots of creative software exists on Linux alongside Windows and Mac without a problem. Substance, Unity, Unreal, Houdini, Blender all work great and is a handful of the software that are cross platform, I fail to see why Serif would fail in this area alongside them. Anyway, I see your points, but I disagree with you on a base level. Your reasoning is flawed IMO.

well then I guess it's a super amazing feat that something like Gimp, made for free and non-profit works on every distro just fine. I'm sure Serif would have zero issues with this. It's a non issue. Likewise, there's all kinds of proprietary software that works just fine on all distros. Never had a problem with it. If anything all you're trying to do with your '25 years of experience with linux' is discourage devs from making software for it and discouraging people from using linux in general which is not normal for a linux user. Most people who have experience with linux will try to encourage more people to use it. your attitude is pretty sus so far tbh. Why don't you want Linux to be used?

it's usually not a problem at all, *most* of the time it'll work on all distros just fine. most changes between distros are just the desktop environment, possibly included or not included drivers which can be added later, and a custom selection of included applications which again can be added or removed from all and how far behind in updates the distro is compared to each other. For example where substance designer only has an rpm format you can still just convert it to be used on debian based distros anyway. I think people should stop trying to make problems out of non-issues lol.

yea, it does. if I can list one by chance before you even mentioned it, in a list of 2 on an unrelated note, then chances are there's a f*ck ton more not listed in a clearly not very comprehensive list. I could make a list of 100 or so random proprietary software for windows too, do you think it can be used as an argument to say that windows only has 100 proprietary softwares? Or do you think maybe I should have done my research and it'd be a stupid attempt at confirming a bias I may have?

Are you talking about this?; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proprietary_software_for_Linux Because if so it's not even a full list, I even listed one that's not in there in my last post

As people have pointed out there are so many commercial applications that are on linux and are used. I use the Substance suite, Blender and Unity, which are my softwares of choice, but forced to use gimp/krita which aren't my choice. It's a mixed bag of FOSS and commercial. I think a lot of people consider Linux as a whole some kind of anti-consumer, anti-commercial, anti-paid software OS for hobbyist programmers with tinfoil hats but it's absolutely not like that. Linux is just one of three options that happens to be FOSS where the other two aren't (being FOSS is a good thing, not bad). Boggles my mind that it's even an argument for some people. 'Hey Serif, stop working on the iOS version of Affinity because most people don't even use it and it's wasting resources that could be put toward the OS I use!'

Yes, 4 times over I'd be willing to pay upwards £300 for the affinity suite on Linux, this is a normal amount for software these days. I've bought other softwares like gaea, world machine, embergen etc all for around about £200-300 and I'd hella do the same for Affinity if it meant coming to linux

this is a fair point, Serif are rather slow and if I'm honest I doubt they'd get it running on Linux within the next 2 years if they tried, but I still they think should do it.

Again, this is only the case because most people use windows and I think is is a bad way to think. and it shouldn't be so much thought about as "switching to linux" so much as "this is the best OS and people should start using it" and the only way that happens is if developers make software for the platform so people can use the platform. I think it's wise that people stop giving in to Microsofts monopoly just like people should stop giving into Adobes monopoly. I think it's wise that people stop considering which OS they are forced to use because they have to and start to think about which OS they want to /should use, and not necessarily for the now but for the future. The same could be said about a lot of things though I don't want to go on a crazy rant, but this kind of thing happens all the time, people *should* use Signal over Whatsapp but no one does, because everyone uses whatsapp. Be the change you wish to see in the world. Linux is the healthy* choice of OS, and on that note Mac is also a pretty healthy choice but many people struggle to go from windows to mac for the same reasons as they struggle to go to linux. There is a lack of software options and the only solution is for developers to make software for the OS's.

I shouldn't need to keep quoting myself on this, but there's no market share until there is one. And how do you think a market like this starts? developers make their software to begin with. Perhaps you're cool with a lack of choices but in that case, go back to using photoshop if you think there is no place for alternative solutions because Affinity Photo is the alternative solution here. Serif don't make even close to the money photoshop makes, but I don't see that discouraging them. In fact, I think Serif are making affinity photo because of a need to get away from bloated, legacy software. Just like the need to get away from bloated, legacy ridden OS's

What you're describing is not a reason for serif not to support linux, but in fact the problem caused by developers like serif for not supporting it. And as I mentioned before, again, is a bad argument in general. Most people use photoshop, so why bother developing affinity photo? Most people use windows, so why use linux? it makes no sense. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Not making Affinity photo for linux is the reason no one uses affinity photo on linux. Also just as a side note, many schools use cheap or free software alternatives... Including linux. This is likely because schools tend to not want to use up all their budget on expensive software and thats great, in fact it should be encouraged.

Understanding that the reason for there being a small fraction of users is key here. There's not many users because software developers like Serif aren't making the software for users on the platform. I think I've maybe mentioned this for a third time now, but developers not making software because of lack of users because of the lack of software from developers is a *stupid* reason not to make software for a certain platform. Linux is the superior OS compared to windows and the only thing holding it back is lack of software developer support. Of course people are more likely to use an OS when the software they want to use is on it, and of course people aren't going to use an OS if the software they use is not on it. So the answer to the problem is for the developers of software to support linux. It's not like linux is a limited OS like chomeOS. It's not limited to only some hardware. It'll only bring in more customers for serif. Honestly until Linux has the software support from devs like serif it's pointless even comparing numbers, of course there is a lack of customers on linux right now, because there's nothing for them to buy yet.