GeRo

Almost every thread you created has a reply from a moderator, though without reading them it's difficult to know whether or not your concerns were addressed, sorry if our replies didn't do so

Hi All,
Well, it’s been a pretty crazy week since the launch of V2!
This has been a real labour of love for us over the last year or so, and I can’t even begin to describe how hard the development team have worked on it. Not only getting the V2 apps launched, but also of course finally bringing Publisher to iPad. 
With this being our first paid-for upgrade there has understandably been a lot of feedback / questions around future updates and our pricing policies. I thought it was worth addressing / clarifying our position on some of these personally...
Updates to V2 moving forward
Buying V2 not only gets you all the new features you have seen, but we have various updates planned – including many more new features and improvements – which you will get for free. This will continue until such a time that V3 is released. We’re not sure exactly when V3 will be, but I can confirm we are not going to move to anything as regular as an annual upgrade cycle as has been speculated.
It’s worth saying too that V2 does include many under-the-hood changes to our underlying technology, and we have also been investing in several new areas of research recently. Some of these haven’t manifested themselves into new features yet, but overall V2 does give us a better platform to develop on moving forward and I’m sure you will be pleased with the updates V2 will receive.
Updates to V1 moving forward
While we did say on the FAQ that V1 would no longer receive any updates, I want to clarify that was about new feature updates. We will be updating V1 to fix any critical problems caused by operating system updates in the future. So if the next version of macOS breaks V1 we will endeavour to fix it. There will be a point in time when continuing to maintain V1 in this way will not be tenable, but certainly for the foreseeable future we will continue to patch. In fact, we have an update to V1 queued up for release very shortly with some fixes for Ventura and issues caused by a recent Windows security / quality update. 
We will update our FAQ shortly to make that clearer for everyone.
Offer period
In case you didn’t see, I’m pleased to confirm we have decided to run this initial launch offer until 14th December to give everyone the best chance possible to get it if they wish / have a decent amount of time to trial it. 
Upgrade pricing
It’s been really hard to see some of the comments about us not looking after our existing customers – we’re pretty devasted that anyone feels like that to be honest. But the fact is we felt our hands were tied somewhat with being able to offer upgrade pricing in a fair way. The main reason for this was App Store customers (which make up around 35% of our userbase). The problems with that are two-fold: firstly, we didn’t have a way from within V1 to validate an App Store purchase receipt to reliably ensure customers who were entitled to an upgrade could get one; and secondly, we could not find a good way for people to get that discount via the App Store. Us pushing upgrade customers to go exclusively via our own site (including customers who were previously acquired via the app stores) may also have put us in violation of App Store Ts & Cs which we were obviously concerned about.
I’m not saying that these issues were completely insurmountable, but any solutions we came up with would be messy, and most importantly could have resulted in some bona fide V1 customers struggling to get validated and claim their discount. We certainly don’t have the support resource here if we ended up needing to manually validate tens of thousands of receipts for example.
The only option we felt was safe to move forward with was a general launch offer, which would guarantee that every V1 customer could get the discount, whether they purchased directly through us or the App Stores. We knew a side effect of that would mean some new customers would end up receiving that same discount – but we felt that was a better option than V1 customers missing out. It’s also worth saying that while there has been some good press about V2, all our main marketing has been via email and through social media to our followers. In other words, we felt ok about it because we knew the vast majority of people who would find out about it or take advantage of the offer would be existing customers. I would be surprised if over the offer period customers upgrading from V1 didn’t make up more than 90% of our sales.
Overall I do believe us giving a 40% discount, along with the addition of the new Universal Licence of course, is offering fantastic value for money for those who want to upgrade. 
However, taking on board some of the feedback there is something extra we can do – we will offer a new free bundle of content exclusively for V1 customers upgrading to V2 as an extra thank you for your support. I’ve seen this suggested by a number of customers and it’s a great idea as it does remove the App Store conflict entirely. 
We’ll need a little time to put something together, but all customers who previously registered or purchased V1 and have since upgraded to V2 will receive a voucher code for this via email as soon as we can.
A comment on no subscription
I do want to say that some of the points above are exactly the reason why software companies move to subscription. Whatever you do with upgrade pricing, you still have the issue of customers who bought the previous version 3 months ago vs. those who have had it 2+ years. Offering perpetual licences also gives the additional overhead of needing to maintain the previous version longer than you would if everyone was on subscription / generally always on the latest version.
We are a small team so some of these complications are not ideal — all we really want to do is focus on developing our latest codebase, push out regular updates and continue with our mission to make great creative software accessible to everyone. 
But it does need to be funded somehow. We know you love our no-subscription model, but there also needs to be a level of appreciation that the alternative is having paid-for upgrades from time to time. That unfortunately comes with its own problems.
All of that said, I have to say we have been blown away with the response to V2 - around 3 times as many people have upgraded in the last week than we expected - and we really can't thank you enough for the support you have shown. More than anything the success of this upgrade puts us in a great place to continue investing heavily in development which is ultimately what it's all about, and we’re super excited to crack on with some great updates coming next year!
All the best,
Ash
This is a duplicate post of a thread that is now locked and moved to the questions forum

I admit, I logged in to see if there was an upgrade available via the website/store, but that seemed more like a reflex because upgrades are often offered. I don't need 2/3 of the universal licence because I'm not using Apple products unless forced to at work, but it's still a great bargain.

Even buying the individual programs at their regular prices would have been ok, but then I'm just happy to have an alternative to CC. And since I'm still missing some features, I sure hope development will go on for many years to come
And if that means I'll buy the program allover again every couple of years than so be it.

(Have some people forgotten what the Creative Suites have cost - even as upgrades? Or are people just hit with pre-CC nostalgia?)

 

Hi All - again I appreciate all the feedback on this, I can assure you it’s all been listened to. However, this seems to be digressing quite a lot and we will now lock this thread. I’m going to post a fresh post with my original statement in announcements (this one will be moved into the question forum). This will allow me to post any further updates about this on a clean post, particularly when we have the free content pack for V1 upgraders available 👍
Thanks again,
Ash

"Would be"? It's there in V2.

Thank you.

I can confirm that your email is with the Customer Service team. As you can imagine, since the launch of V2 both Customer Services and Technical Support have been inundated with support contacts and we're currently working our way through these contacts on a first come, first serve basis. We can only apologise for the wait but you will get a reply as soon as possible.
I will hide comments related to this particular post as there's no need to discuss this further.

We already knew that the new version would come as a one time buy so will be the next one and the next one ad nauseam.
 
If you think it's not worth the upgrade yet,just wait for the moment you feel it is. I bought day 1 as I am an early adopter and felt it was totally worth it already. If you bought into affinity a couple of months ago you don't have to run to the stores yet. Eventually people decide for themselves. 
 
Anyway the notice is out. V2 is released, this will be the  version that will be updated with new features and if you think it's worth it, like i do, get it and if not wait a couple of months. Simple.
 

it was already clear from the beginning that every new version has a new licence model.  Yes Serif can ask some more for it, thats their rights. Every thing cost more, also they have to buy also their food and more.
So simple I have buy the new one without complaining.

which has so much to do with Affinity V2, updates, pricing and no subscription

LOL .. you sir are priceless. I said companies have to make money to pay dividends. This is not fake news but a fact of life. Now I wasn't aware that Affinity was owned by an individual as this is a general discussion not a news piece. So in this case the owner needs to make profit to pay for his investment in the company. Which is exactly the same thing. You seem to be the only one who doesn't get this.

which has so much to do with Affinity V2, updates, pricing and no subscription

which has so much to do with Affinity V2, updates, pricing and no subscription

Serif have said they will be continuing with updates to Ver 1 but not new feature additions so you will receive more than 6 months updates in the future. Ver 1 will continue to work for you as long as your OS allows it.

Ver 2 does contain features that Ver 1 can't do and from what I understand is a major rewrite to the core program to allow continued development. You don't have to upgrade but the offer is a good one. I took the odder within minutes of the site going live despite just getting AD & AP around 6 months ago and I have no issue with the update cost. I don't have a commercial use so I will not 'get my money back'.
 

For me as an existing V1 customer I was more than happy to take the V2 offer as it also enabled Affinity on Windows and Publisher on the iPad for what I consider a very reasonable price. I would have upgraded anyway but these additions made it easy and I'm excited to see development and growth in a viable alternative to the Adobe subscription model for creative products.

Sadly, there are few places where I have seen more entitlement. Imagine if that energy was spent building a profitable business such that this tiny cost would not even enter your mind. But that thinking is what separates those at the top from the rest.
Anyway, a couple of points:
- Studio Link - It's awesome. Try to live without it....
- It sounds like a lot of people have never dealt with Adode support before. Serif provides white-glove/silver service compared to Adobe. Adobe literally have the most useless, incompetent, clueless support I have encountered in my life. They still charge the earth though.
- Happy to pay for the upgrade. But I do like the 'asset bundle' gift gesture, as a little something for V1 users, whenever. May I suggest a really nice bunch of professional icon sets?

Sorry, but the Affinity apps never had this tradition and in many cases people need to purchase updates in much shorter times and sometimes have to change to subscriptions or higher prices …

I just want to say, first hi affinity family. I'm a new member! Just gonna give my two cents about this whole drama being outside. It is what it is.
I've been following affinity since inception, but never bought it. Even tho i recommend it i wasnt in a position to buy it. Once I saw the re-edit of the apps even tho there wasnt much new new features i knew this only could meant great things are coming. *I hope*. And im taking you on your word @Ash. I bought it after 2hours trying the trials. And since i knew the software i since can say replacing the one that shall not be named is at 95% with 4 features i'll maybe write here in the future that I find extremely lacking for a professional set as my own. (Im a 2D 3D designer, also code and work with tradicional design agencies).

So given that. I can tell you guys I maybe the odd one out but I legit use the 3 softwares at work (Win, Mac, iOS) so for me this software at 120€ for 3 diff OS's seams a steal and I feel bad paying so little. So ill be sure to be more supportive in the future.
Althought im not an early adopter, and I cant talk about how you *the ones that are complaining the most*, the price of the apps, the license, even if you buy it separate, as no competition whatsoever. So i agree when everyone feels kind of betrayed for the same price for everyone, the lack of communication but this is what serif as to work on: communication. You hear me @Ash !
Tho for me personally seeing many complaining about prices when - however u see it - are super competitive , felt a bit of bad taste. But guess thats the consequence of bad communication and not actions. Cus the software price for function seems fair, even given that minor updates are free.
For me personally i'd pay 40, 30 20% at lunch of major revisions without a blink for it and embrace that new users can use our dedication to enter the family. Making this about you *the ones that are complaining the most*, is just selfish... you want a company to thrive not to cater to a niche.

Thats my lil rant given all i saw. But feel free to put me in my place.

Anyway, hope everyone can at the end of the day, not see it for the money, and see it as new members floading in helping to get more funding to keep this project running.

P.S. i for one convinced my boss to buy the whole pack for himself even tho he only gonna use Photo from day to day on a mac.

Sorry, but the Affinity apps never had this tradition and in many cases people need to purchase updates in much shorter times and sometimes have to change to subscriptions or higher prices …

Yes, I fear that over the strive for the big advancements the Affinity developers forgot to care about these seemingly “small things” that would nonetheless significantly improve our workflows. Over the years, nobody really seemed to have paid attention to the respective user requests, and this is what I feel to cause frustration in the long-term user base. 🙁
Let me give you an example. In January 2015, in one of my first posts here, I had already suggested that the simple option of Alt(Opt) + dragging an object in the Layers Panel to clone the object to a new location in the layers tree should be implemented.
https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/4006-some-layer-things/#comment-16292 To my understanding, this has never been an outlandish request. The respective option
has been available in competitors’ apps for ages, should be implementable with a few lines of code that won’t break anything (don’t tell me otherwise: if the team can set up nondestructive RAW developing and vector mesh warp, this should be an apprentice piece), does not require the implementation of additional UI elements (it is an “invisible” improvement that does not complicate the UI and changes the UX only for the better), does not interfere with Alt(Opt) + clicking for solo mode, since we are talking about Alt(Opt) + dragging here (choose a different modifier for drag-cloning, if you consider it a problem), should be absolutely non-controversial as a most helpful option that speeds up layer workflows considerably, and does not break any existing workflow (if you don’t want to use it, just leave it aside). Considering these arguments, I think there’s really no good reason for not implementing this feature, and honestly, its implementation should also not fail due to missing workforce capacity. And it’s not that I would have been the only one asking for the feature. Here are a just a few threads that turn up in a superficial forum search:
https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/7545-add-new-layer-above-current-object/ (April 2015) https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/17984-duplicate-a-layer-by-alt-drag-drop-in-layers-panel/ (February 2016 – November 2021) https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/28802-altdrag-layer-to-create-a-copy/ (November 2016) https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/163101-how-to-copy-layer-mask-and-paste-to-another-layer-in-affinity-photo-ipad/ (June 2022) So when you look at these comments (one could compile a similar list for many, if not all of the other features I mentioned above) and when you see, at the same time, that this simple quality-of-life feature has not yet been implemented, after seven years of development time and countless beta cycles, you cannot help to think “Well, they do theirs, don’t hold your breath.” Which will, inevitably, cause frustration. 🙁
I’m not saying this in order to bash the Affinity team or diminish their efforts. I just believe that after the fantastic process they made with the new versions, it would be time to seriously turn their attention to these small features that come at virtually no development cost and would improve our daily lives tremendously. Hope you understand. 😀

Absolute rubbish! "All" other software company's do not do this. For example the screen recording software I use has just been upgraded to a new version. Like Affinity the upgrade has to be paid for. Not only is there no discount for existing users, but, unlike Affinity, it is now more than twice the cost of the old version! They point out that you can continue to use the old version as long as you like, which is what I have decided to do – just like people can do with v1 of Affinity, if they don't want to upgrade.
(It's also worth noting that many other business's do not offer discounts for "loyalty" either. Insurance, banks, broadband and phone companies etc often give discounts to new customers to get their business, then charge their old "loyal" customers more than the new ones!)
Some companies offer "loyalty" discounts, some don't! Some do special deals for new customers, some don't! If you don't like the deal, shop around and get a better one – if you can!

Hi Ash,
my sincerest congratulations to version 2 of the Affinity suite, to you and the entire team, and thank you for your explanations! The new version offers great improvements to the entire application suite, and the new solutions you found are extremely well thought out. 😀
Keep up the good work! And if I may add this here, I would really love to see improvements in the “little things” along the version 2 development cycle. By “little things” I mean those usability improvements that save us clicks in frequently performed tasks, most of which have extensively been discussed on these forums. Such as
Alt+drag to copy objects in the Layers Panel, Alt+click on layer’s or group’s triangle in the Layers Panel to open or close the entire subtree structure, as it is the case in macOS Finder, Shift+drag to constrain the aspect ratio of the Crop Tool rectangle in Photo, the option of having the Crop Tool remember its last-used state (make it a preference, if you don’t like to make it the default behaviour), the option of setting a custom default tool for an app and for embedded documents that are opened in a new tab (Photo, for instance, always defaults to the Hand Tool which is of no use if you have a trackpad), copy & paste of slices in the Export Persona, the option of adding the Snapping Options Buttons to the toolbar of the Export Persona, the option of holding down a key to temporarily activate a tool just until key release, the option of moving selected pixel content with marquee tool and Command key pressed, etc. (… I’m sure you’ve compiled a list of these little things over the years yourself …) None of these improvements should really be controversial, overly difficult to implement or break any existing workflow. At the same time, their absence is felt every day and slows down workflows considerably, especially when taken together. Sure, it’s unlikely that you win any new customers by adding such options (alone), but you will make a lot of existing customers happy. Now that you have all three apps up and running on all target platforms, I think it would be a great time to add these “little things,” and it would add additional emphasis on the fact that you care for your user base … 😀
Again, thank you!
Alex 😀

Hi,
I have previously purchased Affinity Photo v1 for Mac and iPad, Affinity Designer v1 and Affinity Publisher v1 for Mac and have now happily paid for Affinity Photo v2 for Mac and iPad, even though I received the fantastic promotion from Serif.
I will pay for each major new version because I believe that people's work must be paid for. Great job, and thanks so much for developing these great products for the Mac and iPad.
Cheers,
David

Great text, great V2, Great Britain!
Thank you, Ash! Never seen such a transparent and customer-oriented approach in sofware industry (ok, industry does not really fit but perhaps in one year Serif is bigger than Adobe ~ almost in mind). 😻🤘👏
But: It was not fair to kill or hide the cat in the AD update! 🙀

You're not allowed to talk about killing cats round here!

We've still got a cat, it's just a new one

When the new products were launched, it was stated that updates for existing purchases were no longer going to be available (it was still being stated in the FAQ's up until yesterday). No updates to keep them secure and working for at least a transition period. So for the last week I've been faced with a £90 bill to stop my existing purchases from becoming obsolete. With everything else soaring in costs here, that has caused a certain amount of stress, added to by the limited discount offer timescale.
Ideally a transition period for keeping V1 purchases bug-fixed would have been announced and provided (no, I'm not expecting 'lifetime' updates) when the new products were released. Even better, some sort of upgrade/bundle/discount path (it can be done via the App Store, and certainly via Serif's own store) for existing customers, so there's at least a token acknowledgement that our previous support and cheerleading for the company (an understatement would be to say I've encouraged at least a hundred others to purchase their products over the years) is recognised and rewarded.
Neither of these things were provided.
Yes, £90 is a good deal, particularly for those that haven't already bought everything, but last week's policy of abandoning existing products overnight hardly gives me confidence in buying them all over again.
So yeah, it's not been a great experience for me this one - including the responses on this forum, and I'm guessing the people I've recommended their products to (including an organisation that were going to buy a number of desktop products a few months back) are feeling the same. I daren't ask them!