B-Interactive
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Posts
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Joined
Posts posted by B-Interactive
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Thanks @LondonSquirrel. I knew the sum was crude, but that's much further off than intended, so I appreciate you correcting that.
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15 hours ago, wonderings said:
that comes with a big "if". I don't think people are ditching Windows or Mac in droves for Linux, it is just not happening.
The qualifier "in droves" brings to mind fanboys queuing for the newest model iPhone... which I don't think is being suggested as the case with Linux. That aside, I think the statement is reasonable. Particularly in western countries, Microsoft and Apple dominate mind-share in the desktop market. It's taken for granted by most consumers that a new PC will either be Mac or Windows.
It's interesting to look further abroad to other countries, such as India where adoption of Linux desktop apparently surpasses OSX. Perhaps no big deal though, we're still only talking 3.92% market share... in a population of 1.4 billion persons! Do the admittedly crude maths on that, and we have a much greater sum than the entire population of North America. India is not an insignificant presence in the IT market, being a global hub of IT skills and developers.
15 hours ago, wonderings said:I would also question how important the software they use is if they would move to a computer that does not support the software they want/need to use. To me that is putting the cart before the horse. I need Adobe CC...
Agreed. If we're using Adobe CC as the example, then the options are very clear, there's really no way around needing Windows or OSX.
I'm primarily a developer. Linux is built for development, with the base system designed and ready to build applications from source. Likewise, the custom applications I build do well to run on Linux/BSD, so it makes sense to be developing, building and testing things on a similar system to what they'll be deployed to.
As a developer, I receive assets from graphic designers, which I need to then prepare for use in the applications I'm building. I'd like to suggest that as a developer, expressing a need for Linux support of Affinity Photo, is not putting the cart before the horse. It's pointing to a gap that goes unfilled, perhaps unrecognised, in this market.
Stack Overflow, which I'm sure any developer is truly familiar with, in their latest survey has Linux being used by 25.32% of developers, just ahead of OSX.
JetBrains, creators of industry respected development tools, has Linux being used by 47% of developers, again ahead of OSX and not all that far off from Windows.
- Renzatic, Bez Bezson and Snapseed
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19 hours ago, B-Interactive said:
Given Linux is to desktop operating systems, what Affinity is to creative software, a non-standard outlier
8 hours ago, PaulEC said:I'm not sure what this statement is based on, but it seems to me to be a completely false comparison!
Happy to clarify @PaulEC
I believe we can all agree Linux does not represent the standard desktop operating system used by the creative industry (or in general).
I suspect we could also agree the Affinity suite is not the standard software used by the creative industry (or in general).
One could then say, both Linux and the Affinity suite, are non-standard outliers in the creative industry. They both share this characteristic. -
2 hours ago, fde101 said:
If people are able to do their work on Linux because of discovering that other software, they may no longer have reason to maintain their other operating system(s), which would mean they would have no reason to upgrade the Affinity software in the future.
That pretty much sums up my scenario.
I'd been wanting to transition my workstation to Linux/BSD for a long time, but I have relied heavily on the Adobe CC, which had been a show-stopper as far as Linux support. I got fed up with Adobe Premiere issues and despite still paying for a Creative Cloud subscription out of pocket, I taught myself Davinici Resolve and started to use that instead. Even the free version was better than my paid-for Adobe Premiere. Eventually, I purchased Affinity Photo and finally ditched my Adobe CC subscription. Knowing Davinici Resolve had Linux support, I finally decided to dive into a Linux workstation. Note, I chose to transition to Linux because the software I was using, was supported by Linux, which is essentially what others have been saying would be a driving factor.
After transitioning to Linux, I upgraded Davinci Resolve to the (paid for) Studio version, to fully take advantage of it.
Naively, I thought professional video editing under Linux was my biggest hurdle. I had expected I'd be able to run Affinity Photo under Linux, in some capacity. It surprised me there really wasn't any working solution outside of a separate Windows (or Mac) PC, or a virtual machine. Given Linux is to desktop operating systems, what Affinity is to creative software, a non-standard outlier, I had mistakenly assumed it would run in some capacity under Linux, as is not uncommon from similarly positioned software.
There are a host of reasons why I prefer to use Linux. Switching lost me support for Affinity Photo, but I'm happy with my choice.- Bez Bezson and Snapseed
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I use RawTherapee too and highly recommend it for photo processing. In many ways, it's much more advanced than Lightroom or Photoshop Camera Raw, so may be a bit difficult for a new user to approach.
DisplayCAL is also a fantastic open-source screen calibration tool, I use with my X-Rite i1Display Pro. -
5 hours ago, MattyWS said:
...though with Gimp 3.0 coming soon I might just give up on affinity, and I really don't want to use Photoshop. Krita, Gimp and Inkscape I guess are the big go-tos...
Starting up a virtual machine each time I wanted to run Affinity Photo had become too tedious for me, particularly given the poor performance of running it in a VM. My Affinity Photo license goes largely unused now.
I've taken to just using Gimp instead. It's rough around the edges and lacks a feature or two, but it's very capable. The main hurdle has been adapting to its shortcuts and UI.I raise my hand as someone who'd appreciate Affinity Photo releases under Linux, but I'm not holding my breath for it. Serif will do what Serif will do.
As has been alluded of Linux users previously in the thread, I'm not opposed to paying for and using commercial, closed source software. I've also paid for Davinci Resolve Studio, which I'm delighted to be able to use under Linux, and is a suitable equivalent for GPU/CPU intensive closed source graphics software running under Linux/Windows/OSX. BlackMagic target and officially support CentOS (although perhaps under review given it's approaching EoL), so whilst you can run Davinci Resolve under other distros (and I do), they're only community supported. And that's fine, because community support is something Linux has always done and does well. In a nutshell, needing to support 200+ (or whatever) distros is not necessary. Target one (eg: Ubuntu LTS or Fedora) and let the community worry about packaging for, and supporting other distros....or don't *shrug* -
12 minutes ago, wonderings said:
Not sure anyone here is against a Linux version, what I think people like myself argue is that it may not be a good business idea for Serif to go down that route at the moment. It is also not just some easy thing to jump into and just start raking in the money. Sure you could go and block anyone who disagrees with you but I would say that is a sad way to live your life, only allowing things in that you agree with already. Are you not open to hearing other view points and either strengthening your own or changing based on something that may actually make sense?
I think the more options for consumers the better, so in this I would say it would be great if Linux users had an option. For a business I am not sure it is worth it at this stage for all the reasons that have been listed by others who you would throw into the "troll" category. Civil discourse can be had and is incredibly healthy. What is not healthy is again blocking out any opposing views.
If you haven't already, you might consider reviewing from here onward.
No commentary from myself necessary. People can read and see for themselves, and come to their own conclusions. -
9 hours ago, Snapseed said:
...go over to WineHQ, join it, and then use your 3 casting votes (yes, you get 3!) to vote up Affinity Photo so that it moves up the ranking list to better attract the attention of Wine developers.
The required link is here - https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=39311
Thanks again @Snapseed. It's interesting to see it's already at #6 (of 15542 listed applications).
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Just now, LondonSquirrel said:
Because you said that everyone is copying everyone else, whereas I said that Linux copies everyone else and not the other way round. It's called refuting an argument.
I never made the claim they copied from Linux. So why should I defend it?
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1 minute ago, LondonSquirrel said:
Name two things which Mac or Windows have copied from Linux.
Why?
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8 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:
Name two things which started in Linux...
Name two reasons it matters?
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Just now, LondonSquirrel said:
Now you change your argument. Linux copies from Mac and Windows, and before that UNIX. Not the other way round.
No change here, but perhaps misunderstood. The entire industry has been copying "the other guy", being anyone else (not Linux specifically) since the beginning.
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6 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:
Linux is nowhere. It's unimportant to Nvidia.
More than 1 million Steam users are using Linux. Steam users (generally) use predominantly Nvidia GPU's.
Crypto mining under Linux is popular. Can't put my finger on figures though.
Machine Learning is also big under Linux.
Nvidia have their own Linux distro17 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:I haven't seen anything that is actually 'new' in Linux that I have not seen in older versions of (real) UNIX, or on Windows or Mac. So Linux is hardly at the forefront of anything.
Same could be said for Windows and OSX.
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28 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:
In the graphics world, one word: Adobe.
On 5/29/2021 at 9:26 PM, B-Interactive said:I'm hard pressed to think of an industry level application that doesn't have an answer on Linux. Where that becomes unstuck, is an answer to some of the Adobe Suite, namely Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign.
I agree @LondonSquirrel. -
Just now, LondonSquirrel said:
It's not a very long list, is it?
10 minutes ago, B-Interactive said:This is just the stuff I use and I could go on.
And putting that point aside, it's not the size of the list that matters. It's whether or not it's lacking. As I've said now a couple of times, it really lacks very little. -
2 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:
Hahahaha. Apart from applications. I mean a wide choice of useful application, not notepad apps. Sure, there is some good Linux desktop software. But that is a very short list.
Just so happens to be the same good Windows / OSX software.
[Windows/OSX Option] - [Linux Option]
Davinci Resolve - Davinci Resolve
Visual Studio Code - Visual Studio Code
LibreOffice - LibreOffice
RawTherapee - RawTherapee
Audacity - Audacity
Brave - Brave
Firefox - Firefox
Thunderbird - Thunderbird
OBS - OBS
Steam - Steam
VLC - VLC
Handbrake - Handbrake
KeePassXC - KeePassXC
Signal - Signal
Telegram - Telegram
This is just the stuff I use and I could go on. -
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2 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:
Do you really suggest that there is anything like the number of Linux desktop apps compared to Windows and MacOS? Good luck living in your Linux on the desktop bubble.
Almost every application I frequent under Linux, I was using first under Windows. A side effect of open-source it seems, is Linux support is often a given. I'm using Linux as a development and creative platform for professional purposes and as I stated, it really lacks very little. If one was using it for desktop purposes only, I'd go so far as to say it lacks nothing at all.
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44 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:
The Linux desktop (which of them, or all of them) lacks apps. The number is insignificant in comparison to Windows or Mac.
Do elaborate.
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1 hour ago, Snapseed said:
Even there, l think that credible alternatives now exist on Linux even if it means getting used to a comparable workflow. Examples include, but are not limited to, PhotoLine+Wine, Inkscape and VivaDesigner. In my case, l use Pixeluvo which is an excellent slot in replacement for Adobe Photoshop Elements.
I appreciate those recommendations @Snapseed. I'll be interested to see how well Pixeluvo can handle PSD files, for my interactive development work. It's an option I'll consider in any case, because I also do a lot of photography.
I do a substantial amount of photo editing, 95% of it is done purely in raw using RawTherapee, now that I've stepped away from Adobe Photoshop Camera Raw, which had been my go-to for years. I have been relying on Affinity Photo for that last 5%'ish. Things like panorama stitching, spot removal, finer localised adjustments, etc. Maybe Pixeluvo can fill that gap.
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16 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:
They are unwilling to accept a few simple truths. Linux has its place, but it's desktop share is so small that it is not worth producing software for it.
Responses to this reasoning have already been given, by myself and others. Speaking from personal experience here, but echoing what's been said by others also, I would have switched to Linux/BSD long ago if Adobe had supported it. Adobe Premiere was becoming such a mess though, I transitioned to Davinci Resolve, which opened the door to Linux.
19 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:I have heard this sort of argument for about 20 years now. If only Linux had a good office suite. If only it had a good database. If only it had this that and the other.
Perhaps a lot has happened in 20 years, but Linux desktop really lacks very little. If we put Adobe to the side for a moment, I'm hard pressed to think of an industry level application that doesn't have an answer on Linux. Where that becomes unstuck, is an answer to some of the Adobe Suite, namely Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign.
16 hours ago, ewwn said:its not worth supporting closed source software for it, because there is a good amount of Linux users who just won't use closed software
I suspect you're correct in saying a good amount of Linux users won't use closed source software. I also suspect those users have little to no interest in the Adobe Suite or Serif products too, so no market to be lost or gained for Serif amongst that lot. Identifying a group of people who have no interest in Serif or Adobe products, does not prove no one is interested in an answer to the Adobe Suite, or Serif products under Linux though.
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32 minutes ago, wonderings said:
Are people really that dissatisfied? I know in some ways I am not happy with Apple's direction but they keep on selling and keep on raising the price and keep on selling. I would say the same with Adobe, their user numbers are not dropping, I believe they are actually rising.
@wonderings, I think this speaks to my point about how hard it is to buck the trend. It's an industry that is saturated by Adobe, so if one wants to exist within that industry, then it's likely, if not often necessary that they go with the flow.
Fortunately for Serif, some have bucked the trend. That we're here as a community of Affinity users, might be considered some degree of evidence that people are dissatisfied with big tech.
45 minutes ago, wonderings said:I am curious about VirtualBox, I know the software, never used it though. Is the performance because of VirtualBox or do all (assuming there is more software for virtualization) VM software run bad on Linux? I run Parallels on my Mac and have done so for years and it runs amazingly well.
If VirtualBox gets GPU pass-through support, I expect that'd make a huge difference. As it is, Affinity Photo is forced into software mode which is throwing away a significant portion of my systems potential. I don't believe that's a Linux limitation. If you ran VirtualBox on OSX, presumably it'd be the same issue. VMWare Workstation Player may be an option I look into though as it at least appears to have better GPU support.
- Snapseed and Bez Bezson
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Affinity products for Linux
in Feedback for the V1 Affinity Suite of Products
Posted
I agree.
One argument that has been held against Linux support for the Affinity Suite, is that it's already being built for 3 platforms and supporting Linux would only hinder support, or progress on those existing platforms.
Agnostic cross-platform development has come a long way in 10 years and many modern development methodologies embrace developing once, for support under multiple platforms.
Perhaps the stronger argument is not to develop a 4th target platform for the Affinity Suite, rather re-approach the development process so there's one body of source that is platform agnostic. Windows, OSX, Linux, even tablet, largely same source code. The tools handle cross-compiling natively for target platforms. I don't suggest it's a trivial task to migrate a code-base, but such a consideration could expand platform support with potentially much lower development overhead going forward. I'm sure the dev team and such are best positioned to weigh that up though.