[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

9 hours ago, chakko007 said:

Yes. And every website you host has to be paid

I know, I have several, and it costs me only $1.62 USD per month to host three domains on the same package, which is unmetred with databases. I don't feed ads to try and get that $1.62 back nor do I collect data from users' computers. If people want to pay $30 per month for unlimited space and features they'll never use, that's up to them. Some people also lack the knowledge about what web hosting is because they have been fed Google and other walled gardens and site builders since birth.

The value of data is worth more than the value of bits on a server, which may be why Google is a billion-dollar company and the users are probably not getting richer by using it.

Anyway, closer to my original issue; it's not the data that people give away with their own hand or voice that concerns me, it's the data that is covertly taken that does. As I've said before, someone stole my credit card details online and spent over $3,000 on medical supplies in a country I've never been to. Someone stole my wife's details and defrauded her. All that as a result of data being stored on the WWW. Even using AWS is insecure if not set up properly.

As Steps has mentioned, this topic has probably  run it's course. Thanks for your contributions, folks.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

14 minutes ago, chakko007 said:

It doesn't have to be necessarily. What i was pointing out is that, on the internet, a few fight for things that the majority might not want at all.

Yes, there is that. But there may be a lot of that assumed majority who just don't want to voice their opinion or might think it's a waste of time saying anything. If they remain silent, there's no way to tell what their opinion really is.

Anyway, my original question has lost all direction now, and I'm glad it was answered several pages ago.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

35 minutes ago, chakko007 said:

You know why the whole internet is still free?

It's not. You pay an ISP to connect to it. Without paying that monthly fee, you wouldn't have any access to it. Besides, the internet is all of the servers and computers on the network not  websites, documents and online services; that's the World Wide Web, which uses the internet.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

7 minutes ago, haakoo said:

I'll give you mine;

Every program/app/website needs to collect data whether personal or technical.
For updating/program enhancements/error handling or even marketing purposes.
Eula/privacy statements and conditions are long winded to read and add no value as you need to comply anyway to use anything.
If you don't like it,stay of the grid and use pencil and paper to design,

Not true. Not every app needs to collect data (in order to keep). Not even those online. There are developers that want the data to make money, not just analyse trends or how it works with different systems.

Yes, EULAs and other policies are long, but should still be read, even if only for key points.

Stay off the grid? That's the wrong attitude. Companies need to change their attitude's towards how data is used and when it is necessary. Maybe that's why privacy has been in the news so much recently, not to mention the update to Europe's privacy laws. Many people have been born into a world of data sharing that it is just accepted, handing over a pot of gold to developers.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

1 minute ago, Steps said:

Unnecessary posting and totally uncalled for....

But thank you for proving my previous point about people that do not care. 

One day you will be affected by an fraud like identity theft and this will help you to learn. I at least hope so. 

I have been a victim of a £3,000 credit card fraud, and my wife had bailiffs after here for a mobile contract in her name that wasn't hers. So, like you, I care about what is being sent from my computer.

I think that if instead of an app taking data, a real person entered people's homes, snooped around their computers and took info without saying what it was, there would be more people against it. And there will be people who'll say it's not the same thing, but it is. You just don't see it happening.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Email Communications are not part of the website or the Affinity Store. Neither is the newsletter, also mentioned in the Privacy Policy.

From the app you can open the support site (last item on the Help menu).

You will also find info in the Privacy Policy about data collected when using the applications (both retail & beta), when an app crashes, & a link to Apple's Privacy Policy, because Mac users can buy the apps through the Mac App Store (& the iPad apps through Apple's Store for that). There is info about the info they collect as the result of communications with Serif, which includes emails, phone calls, or other communications.

Does the website open in the app or in the OS's default browser? There are a more browser-based apps these days, using technology like Electron. If the Affinity website opens in the app, then the privacy policy for the website would apply directly, but only when the website is being used in the app, and not when the website is not being accessed. If help documentation is pulled from the Affinity website, then that would also be cause to note the privacy policy as the app would be accessing the Affinity website. If the app pulls data from AWS, then AWS's policies may apply but not the Affinity's as the Affinity website would not be accessed.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

2 hours ago, Steps said:

They may want the full name for personalized newsletters. I don't kbow what they need it for, but I'm usually okay with it since my mail adress contains my full name anyway.

Adresses are only asked on purchasing non-digital goods.

Serif does this right: If they don't need my address, they don't ask and so they can't loose it on the next big data leak.

Indeed, personalisation is put into generic communications.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

2 hours ago, R C-R said:

It is not just a "website policy." If it was, why would it include sections on Payments, Order Fulfilment and shipping, or Email Communications?

Because they are part of the website's functionality, especially if APIs are integrated into the code, and pass information from the website to those systems as a direct consequence of using the Affinity website.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

10 hours ago, R C-R said:

Which is personal data, which they have a legal right to collect for legitimate business purposes & a legal obligation to protect for as long as they keep it.

Indeed they do need it (we agree on something at last ) for the purposes of verifying identification for purchasing, but there's no need to keep it.

10 hours ago, R C-R said:

If they did not keep it in some personally identifiable form & you bought some software item from their store (an app, brushes, whatever) how could they verify that you had purchased it if you needed to download it again because your local copy was lost or corrupted?

I suppose an e-mail address and/or an order number would be enough. The e-mail address or order number would be the primary key in a customers database. There's no need to keep full names and addresses online at all. An e-mail probably would be necessary to notify users of actions on their accounts and serve as a means to recover account access to download a product again if required.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

On 1/17/2019 at 7:12 PM, R C-R said:

Which is also why it would be a wee bit difficult for Serif to show users that data as required by GDPR or other legal mandates! 

I get the impression that some of the posters are not reading the entire Privacy Policy statement, much less carefully. It is a bit like an old joke about how to convince users to read "Read Me" files by changing the title to "Read this or DIE!" or something similarly dire.

Not really. You are focussed on the website policy, but I am focussed on the product EULA, which has already been established to be a separate thing. A website privacy policy does not apply to software use, unless the software is part of the website, such as online services. If you have read the website privacy policy from the top, you would have seen that it states that we are bound to the privacy policy 'while using the Affinity website', which clearly means that we are not bound to it when not using the website. As soon as we close the browser and terminate the connection with the website, the privacy policy ceases to apply.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

On 1/17/2019 at 5:31 PM, R C-R said:

They are listed in the Privacy Policy statement, along with links to their privacy policies.

I'm asking about the product EULA (section 16) not the website policy, which are separate things.

On 1/17/2019 at 5:47 PM, Patrick Connor said:

and the anonymous data from the software is not shared with 3rd parties, so those are not listed as they do not exist.

Perhaps the wording, 'and affiliates', in section 16 is not required as it implies that 3rd parties have access to data that the user provides. However, it seems to be that section 16 is not about software data but ANY information that is given by the user to Serif for product support and services purposes. I'm guessing that could be information like:

• account number
• installation IDs if Serif still uses them
• recordings of telephone support
• e-mails between users and support agents
• chat messages transcripts
• any hardware information given
• references to software that may be given during troubleshooting
• system logs
• everything

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

Patrick's replies have given me confidence to strongly consider Affinity Photo in the very near future. I bought many versions of the '... Plus' range of software many years ago, so I look forward to rejoining with Affinity.

Back to the topic. The thing that concerns me the most about privacy policies is non-disclosure of exactly which entities/affiliates/partners/third parties have access to data, and what their policies are. By the time data has been shared with third parties that then share it with their third parties, data ends up all over the place with no end-user control. I am sure that Serif would have contracts or a code of practice in place to ensure that any affiliates do not retain the data they have access to. Still, it would be useful to know who/what they are.

The issue I have is not what information I knowingly give away, but what is unknowingly taken, which is why I asked to know exactly what is collected. Perhaps a precise list of data collected could be included in the licence.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

14 hours ago, Patrick Connor said:

Sorry, but my earlier statement about the webite version of the Privacy Policy not covering the application was INCORRECT. From the above quote it clearly does and in more detail that the license (will edit that post to reference this one). SORRY AGAIN.

Which is why I suggested tidying up the policy because the top line states, 'Welcome to Affinity from Serif. Please read this Privacy Policy carefully as you agree to be bound by it while using the Affinity website.' (my bold emphasis), which is why I mentioned that if I am using an Affinity application and not using the website at the same time, the policy would not apply because there would be no '[...] while using the Affinity website' in action. So, by not using the website while using an Affinity app, I would not be bound to the policy.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

2 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

No that's for the website and is correct for that purpose.

Okay. So, I was right about it being for the website and not the apps?

Thank you for the link to the product EULA. I couldn't find it before.

 

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

1 minute ago, Patrick Connor said:

Our software does use the internet connection. If turned on (currently optional on Mac only) there is a call to check for updates. It also gets images and links for the welcome feed that are appropriate to the software (and source for the software). NONE of this includes personal data and none is stored, other than a call count. 

To explain the program passes anonymous data to get the right feed to announce new versions, offers and related applications or content . The parameters passed to us includes info whether the software originated from the Affinity store or the Apple store or Microsoft store. Then we can pass back the right images and links for your software. We do not personalise that feed or store the information. So everyone running the Microsoft store Affinity Photo will see the same images in the Welcome screen.

If you agree to use the beta then crash reports sent include more useful machine data but still nothing personal, just info to help us reproduce the crash. Crash reports sent with the release builds contain even less information than that.

All of our software will work blocked from internet access, but please check occasionally for updates.

Fantastic! Thank you Patrick. Nicely explained.

Maybe the Serif legal team could tidy up that privacy policy to make it completely clear from the beginning or have separate ones for the website and apps.

Thanks again.

 

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

2 hours ago, Grandpappy said:

So, are we being spied on or what? A reply in English and not Klingon is appreciated.

Being spied on is a concern on the internet in general, but I trust Serif enough not to stoop to that level, but not knowing exactly what is being collected from my computer without showing me is a concern.

I come from a time when if companies wanted information, they asked for it, not just assumed consent because I bought their product.

Some people might say I'm being over the top, but I have been a victim of credit card fraud, and my wife's name was used to set up a mobile phone account. I am perhaps more cautious about where my info is and what happens to it. I can tell you, it is not nice finding out someone spend over £3k on my card on medical supplies in New York! Sure, internet banking was quite new back then (Egg Bank), and getting a bailiff letter was equally disturbing. The experiences have made me weary about vague use of language and non disclosure of where my details go.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

7 hours ago, Steps said:

If you really want to be sure about this you will have to use the trial and run Wireshark while using.

Oh, that's a good idea. I suppose I could sandbox it or block it via firewall.

Thank you.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

21 minutes ago, Steps said:

The privacy policy only states "usage data" and as I understand the OP correctly this is not specific enough.

There is no sample how deep this data is.

Indeed, that is part of it.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

8 hours ago, R C-R said:

The second sentence of the first paragraph of the web page mentions that you should read carefully. It is not unreasonable to assume that applies to the whole thing, not just selected parts of it. Do that & there should be no misunderstanding. 

Okay, so reading the first line after the headings, it is actually clearer. Here it is: 'Welcome to Affinity from Serif. Please read this Privacy Policy carefully as you agree to be bound by it while using the Affinity website.' (my bold emphasis)

So, that means (probably also legally) that if I am using an app but NOT using the Affinity website, none of the policy applies.

I selected a part near the top because I read from the top to the bottom. But on the previous occasion I didn't read from the very top.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

Hello RCR,

Thank you for your reply.

The 'lead-in' / preamble or whatever it is contains the sentence I quoted in my post. Here it is again:

This Privacy Policy, together with our Terms and Conditions, and any documents it references, set out the basis on which any Personal Data (as defined below) or which you provide to us will be processed by us as a result of using or interacting with the Affinity website [...]

It does not mention in that section of the policy the software apps, only interaction with the Affinity website, so it would not be unreasonable to not read it all as it is not explicitly stated as being a software app policy. Also, the 'Applications' section could pertain to any apps on the website (payment apps, forum apps, etc), not the actual software apps. Stand-alone software apps and websites are different things and should be treated separately. I think the software app EULA would be more appropriate, but I haven't found it on the website.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

Okay. Thank you for replying.
I avoid the Microsoft store.

The privacy policy at the bottom of the forum is for the website not the actual product:

This Privacy Policy, together with our Terms and Conditions, and any documents it references, set out the basis on which any Personal Data (as defined below) or which you provide to us will be processed by us as a result of using or interacting with the Affinity website [...]

EDIT:

I found the section on applications further down the page, so the lead-in to the privacy policy is inaccurate as it clearly states that it applies to use of the website with no mention of the software applications. It looks like the programs do connect to the internet

[Moving from Windows 7 to Windows 10]

10 hours ago, MEB said:

You don't need to get another license when you move to Windows 10 but the license is only valid for the current 1.x cycle of the application - this means all minor updates are free (1.7, 1.8 etc) but major upgrades - from v1 to v2 for example - are paid. 

There seems to be a lot of misinformation about this from people on Youtube. They make it sound like the licence is forever and includes all future updates. It's good to know that it is for updates only and not upgrades to major releases.

[Does Affinity collect and send data from computers?]

Hello folks,

I'm thinking of buying Affinity Photo for Desktop (Windows), but I'd like to know if the program attempts to collect and/or send any data from users' computers. In these dark days of implied consent and telemetry as excuses to collect data I'd rather know before buying whether or not it does, and if it does, exactly what it does.

Thanks.