John Gibson

LMAO! Good to know, thanks. I'm quite looking forward to having a play. Just a few questions: Is the iPad use of Affinity products superior to the DTP apps due to the touch UI? Can you use a tablet with Affinity products? Are there any limitations when moving between iOS and OSX?

Yes I agree with these points too - AUD$150 seems pretty reasonable for a per annum arrangement. I agree there should be sub-product bundles was you describe. I also think there should be different pricing regimes for different user groups, to really encourage new user uptake by removing the barriers to entry. Everyone seems to do single user, and also multiple users being the single user price multiplied by the multiple user quantity (sometimes with a bulk buy discount, sometimes not), and then there's education/students but often with function limitations which are stupid, unnecessary barriers. I'd like to see groups like single user start-ups, incidental users (people who don't really need the software but might use it if the price is right), casual users (ie. I need it this month so I pay, I don't next month so I don't), not-for-profits, agents and sub-users (people whose business model includes infrequent or purpose specific sub-users as a pricing regime, NOT an affiliate program) and a number of others.

Yes, I agree. This sort of sloppy shit is another reason Adobe annoys me, and unfortunately Apple are even worse both in gliches, stupid product decisions and workflows, along with prohibitive pricing on their software, otherwise I might well use Final Cut and Logic Pro.

Patrick, thank you. I will listen to this interview on the weekend, and I am reassured by the MD comments re the need to change price regimes in the future. Great stuff!

Cool, I appreciate that, but I will need a month or two and a few serious jobs to test Affinity with. I find that often I foolishly just register for a new product only to get distracted and find my free trial time has elapsed before I realised, so these days I am resigned to a purchase even for testing purposes, unless the product is price prohibitive. Cheers!

This is really good stuff, as I am doing a total review right now of my software tools. Unfortunately we all tend to fall into doing what we know, so its time to reconsider all options, especially given Adobe exorbitant pricing. I'll provide a fuller answer by the weekend SrPx, much appreciated

Do you actually use Affinity products and, if so, which ones? Wouldn't it be nice to close this topic as it is really pointless, >>>>>>>>>>> Are you reluctant to answer this question? No, I'm just busy. It seems I cannot win here. Jim wants me to spend less time at the keyboard and you want me to send more lol I am a prospective purchase of the Affinity products for a studio of creatives. I am likely to purchase Designer and Photo, along with the 2 workbooks, shortly for some personal trials over the Christmas/New Year period, to get a sense their usage. If you feel the topic is pointless, why are you here - close yourself down rather than others! Surely you're not seeking to censor other free thinking and acting people? I have appreciated all of the detailed comments here, including yours as a photographer, even the ones that jibe or disagree with me, as I appreciate the feedback. There seems little point to me to enter into platform changes of my go-to creative software, unless the alternative is fit for purpose, and/or the developers and community that comprise the network surrounding the products (which in totality is the products network effect) are open to suggestion, negotiation and are responsive. I also like to know if the vendors I work with are open to the development of partnerships of the strategic kind, and what the mutual possibilities may be in our collaboration, which for me begins by getting a sense of the culture of the network/coimmunity surrounding the product. As Patrick and all of the contributors here have largely reaffirmed Serif and Affinity, and have been helpful with conferring the future, I am feeling somewhat more inclined to change platform post my trials should things check out. I was especially reaffirmed by the fact the the Serif MD has pointed to Serif's current growth being on the back on new users, which will ultimately have to change in time. As much as many don't wish to talk about subscriptions or other types of pricing regimes, in my mind if Serif were only going to rely on perpetual license/one off sales, then by definition of basic math, they would be unable to survive into the future, which in turn would have suggested that I was driving into a dead-end street by choosing Affinity irrespective of the current quality of their product offerings.

Very kind of you haakoo, you're first sentence has got me laughing already, in a good way. A lot of flimflam lol. If you were an Aussie and said these things to me, my automatic reaction would be to say "go f**k yourself" which is actually term of endearment said between Aussie friends, as we seem to enjoy insulting each other in a disagreeable way, with a smile as a manly way of saying "I hear you, but don't get ahead of yourself". We are quite laconic in Australia with a healthy disrespect for authority, so please understand what I say as a friendly response, as I appreciate you answering my questions! You might enjoy this as an insight into Aussie humour, then again you may not, lol: I accept your opinions as yours, and I'm listening, and though I don't seek to "convert" anyone to my opinion (like God at a party lol) I will give you my feedback where I feel it would aid understanding or further the debate, as I would hope you do so also if you choose to. I trust all of this will assist Serif in some way too. ANSWER 1: When you say 200, what currency are you referring to? ANSWER 2: I accept your view without further comment, thanks ANSWER 3: When you say "A small crowdfunding may be an option" I'm curious, what sort of monetary amount do you think would be adequate and for what? You also say "as long as the company stays private" so I guessing you referring to your next answer #4. ANSWER 4: I agree that corporations that become public companies have had a typically bad history of shareholder-centricity with earnings and shareholder returns becoming the be all and end all, so I guess this is the issue your referring to? I do note that Steve Jobs had the leverage with Apple to compel them beyond shareholder considerations - do you not think that Serif could do the same by committing publicly to constitution, and a series of contractual arrangements that may in effect, keep their current philosophy front and centre to them becoming a public company as a way of raising capital? If you don't, thats cool, I suppose I do believe there is a way to use legal instruments to insulate corporations from bad behaviour and the ruthlessness of public shareholders, like Jobs did with Apple 2.0, but I may well be wrong. ANSWER 5: "More diverse products don't mean better products". I agree. I would be of the view that any further product development or diversity should not "rob Peter to pay Paul", so I'm not suggesting bloatware, but that also doesn't mean new features are automatically bad because they're new. If you wish to progress our discussion, even in a small way, I would welcome it, but if not, I again thank you for your consideration haakoo, cheers!

I agree with all of your comments here SrPx excluding the last one, as a bit like a movie, I think listing the credits should be mandatory (I wish Governments would do this with all of the contributors to a project so we know who to hold accountable and they can't hide.) and this will either be a good thing (if its a good product) or less than a good thing (if the product is a flop). It's good to acknowledge points in common and to also accede errors as in my mind, this is a mandatory good faith, clean hands requirement if you wish to pursue contrarian debates. While I agree that consensus is a good thing, like focussing on points of agreement without wrestling out disruptive, contrarian views, leads to filter bubbles (like the one climate change deniers occupy) and closed loop echo chambers, which leads to false senses of security being reinforced, when often they should be disrupted. Though I'm sure we all prefer points in common (I'm no different to you(, to put it in fundamental physics terms using the laws of thermodynamics, you cannot have work without at least some heat, though of course if there is too much heat, the energy left to do the work is reduced proportionally. An efficient car engine will always have some heat, but if it runs over the redline for too long it will be sure to blowup. I agree with your other software mentions, I forgot (or rather tried to forget until you reminded me) of Fireworks lol. Re Blender, this is definitely a space Serif could lead in with their superior philosophy to UI and UX. I agree re constant learning, noting the obvious limitation to commercial overhead in this regards. As we all know, time is money and network effects are a real thing, hence the QWERTY keyboard, so there is a real limit to the overhead I and prepared to, and can afford to, take on. Specifically, the workflow barriers you speak of "Things like the issue with the mask, from....er....that user... and a ton of other complaints" can be resolved in two ways in accordance with the rest of your point here: Where a current workflow can be overcome with a new pathway in the new software, then I think it is incumbent on the new entrant, in this case Serif, to post a solution to each of these workflow issues as they are raised, and/or; Incorporate the missing function ASAP into the new software to eliminate the gap - ie. in this instance have an "Apply Destructive Workflow" function with a "Destructive History Emulator" or some such solution, which emulates what PS does here to overcome the issue and remove the barrier to entry, which in turn converts another segment of users into Affinity customers. I can't speak to Corel as I had some bad experiences in the early days and never returned. Never tried Photpaint. I will take a look at both of them now though, given your answers and my current review of creative software applications, another reason I have pursued this forum thread. Re your answer to my questions: ANSWER 1: I don't agree with the 20 apps answer, but I can also see I have left this open for conjecture, so I will update my question to include: A Serif Software suite that includes: Illustration (Designer); Photo manipulation (Photo); Page layout (Publisher); Photo service (eg. Lightroom - I am unsure about this one, as I did read about something similar available from Serif but I can't seem to find it now) Web design (eg. Dreamweaver) Video editing (eg. Premier Pro) Video effects (eg. After effects) Document editing and execution (eg. Acrobat) Cloud Based Asset Storage (eg. Bridge) Animation (eg. Animate/Character Animator) Audio (eg. Audition) 3D Mockups (eg. Dimensions) Copywriting (eg. InCopy) 3D Compositions (eg. Blender) Gaming (eg. Unity 3D/Unreal) These last two items, 3D compositions and Gaming may well happen as a result of partnering or acquisition, but still the current alternatives Blender and Unity 3D?Unreal are bloatware with increasingly complex UI and UX which could be disrupted by a philosophy to development such as that held by Serif. I do agree with your point about not forcing an upgrade/update, though there are OS limitations inherent here, like when Apple does a major upgrade OSX for example, but if you didn't want to update you OSX or your Affinity products, I agree, there should be no reason why you are compelled to do so. ANSWER 2: I see and respect your point and this may well be true in the current growth phase of Affinity, but their current job advertisements tell me that they won't stop at 3 jewels and nor should they IMHO. I think success in this regards is a function of leadership, strategy and management, which should see no limitations to their pursuits if they get this right. Put another way, if the a-holes at Adobe can get this up through time, there is no reason Serif can't exceed Adobe in less time, with their superior philosophy, by learning many of Adobe's lessons and avoiding much of Adobe's pain points. ANSWER 3: Fair enough, your choice. I'd be interested in such an offer but I will elucidate more on this at a later date when I get time to do so. ANSWER 4: As is your right, given investment decisions rest with each of us as investors. Again, my investment here would be contingent on a number of factors which I will borate on further at a later date, though in-principle I'd back Serif with a modest investment, provided their current visionaries stay with the company and have express provisions in their ownership/contract arrangements that they couldn't be booted out by a bunch of number crunchers, which I'm sure they could do by referring to the arrangements Steve Job's forced upon Apple upon his return to their helm. ANSWER 5: "Considering it getting unlimited resources sounds to me as planning what Christmas decoration shall I put in my new condo in Mars" - Very funny, ROTFLMAO! I agree generally, though I do feel web, video, 3D and gaming are all spaces where a new entrant such as Serif could again overcome legacy issues with a new approach incorporating their philosophy. I think I'll look around the forums and check the other new feature suggestion threads, as I am not intending to replicate those here, rather I'm look for the current 'dealbreakers' that restrict conversion from Adobe. For me, I at least need a robust page layout program, but I would strongly add animation, video editing, effects and audio solutions to these 3 current Affinity products, as I am doing a lot of video these days and it would be great if Designer and Photo could parlay into animation and video as far as workflows and pricing goes, given that Adobe will still hit my wallet as hard for their animation/video offerings, as they do for access to the entire CC suite, so from a commercial studio point of view, this is a real network effects issue IMHO. I really appreciate your time here SrPx, and your detailed responses. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts in future. Cheers!

To your first point, that you do not support perpetual licensing, I take it you agree that Serif will have to move to a more cash flow friendly pricing regime in time, to better facilitate their service, support, upgrades and new product development? If so, what do you think is a fair annual price for service, support and upgrades - AUD$165 per annum, or do you have another amount in mind? To your second point, perhaps I should clarify the question to include a Serif Software suite that includes: Illustration (Designer); Photo manipulation (Photo); Page layout (Publisher); Photo service (eg. Lightroom - I am unsure about this one, as I did read about something similar available from Serif but I can't seem to find it now) Web design (eg. Dreamweaver) Video editing (eg. Premier Pro) Video effects (eg. After effects) Document editing and execution (eg. Acrobat) Cloud Based Asset Storage (eg. Bridge) Animation (eg. Animate/Character Animator) Audio (eg. Audition) 3D Mockups (eg. Dimensions) Copywriting (eg. InCopy) 3D Compositions (eg. Blender) Gaming (eg. Unity 3D/Unreal) These last two items, 3D compositions and Gaming may well happen as a result of partnering or acquisition, but still the current alternatives Blender and Unity 3D?Unreal are bloatware with increasingly complex UI and UX which could be disrupted by a philosophy to development such as that held by Serif. I admit there is only 15 products here rather than 20, so I'll edit my original post to reflect this explicitly.

Patrick, could you please post links to any of these interviews? I would be interested to read/watch them, thanks in advance.

To all current Affinity users I posit the following questions: QUESTION 1: How much you would be willing to pay a year (updates, service & support) for Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher beyond its current perpetual price of AUD$165 (assuming Publisher is also about AUD$55 when its stable) and how much would you pay per year for an Affinity version of Adobe CC with 20 software products? QUESTION 2: Would you like Serif to create a suite of superb products as a one-stop shop for your creative authoring needs? QUESTION 3: Would you be prepared to pay $250, $500, $1,000 or more as part of a crowd-funding, capital-raising venture for Serif in return for one time (perpetual) license and/or part-ownership of all of their soon to be developed products? How much would you pay and what would you want in return? QUESTION 4: Would you buy Serif shares if they floated on the stock exchange? QUESTION 5: What would you add to the current Serif products in terms of features? What other software products would you like Serif to create if they had unlimited resources? Please reply by copying and pasting the following answer format into your post, if you care to: ANSWER 1: Answer here please ANSWER 2: Answer here please ANSWER 3: Answer here please ANSWER 4: Answer here please ANSWER 5: Answer here please I hope to challenge the Serif community by asking these questions above, as potential market research for Serif, largely out of my own interest, as I have no affiliation with Serif in any way. Thank you all in advance.

All good Patrick, I quite agree with your point and your choice, which I respect and appreciate. Of course that doesn't go to Jim's motives, though, whose comments have made me laugh. I do admit to reading into his 'thank-you' to your splitting post a bit more than is actually the case which I appreciate you pointing out. I'm sure you could understand how I came to that conclusion given Jim's most recent post, as I was prepared to let all of that slide having already responded to the substance of Jim's previous post. Out of respect for all concerned I will edit my reply to Jim's last post to remove the factually incorrect content, as I now understand Jim did not petition or go running of to the moderator to have this post split off, but still he was thankful that you did No hard feelings Jim!

Well gbjack, good on you for outing the Adobe incompetents, but I'm not sure the point you are making regarding me. I agree with you that Adobe is a monopolistic price gouger without conscience or considerations for their vast user base, so you've made my point in part here. Just to clarify for everyone concerned, subscriptions comprise just 1 of approximately 55 different TYPES of pricing strategies, that I am aware of. My point about subscription and Serif was just to say that if Serif wants to better compete, in general and with Adobe specifically, then they will need more capital to do it and they will need greater revenues too, as cash flow is king. Whether they do it with subscriptions, annual update, service and support payments or with any of the other 55 types of pricing strategies is a meeter for Serif, if they do it at all. I was just using subscriptions as a placeholder to ask the question: QUESTION 1: How much you would be willing to pay a year (updates, service & support) for Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher beyond its current perpetual price of AUD$165 (assuming Publisher is also about AUD$55 when its stable) and how much would you pay per year for an Affinity version of Adobe CC with 20 software products?

LMAOROTF, There you go again with your glib, paternal Baby Boomer notions of how I should think and what I should do with my time, without addressing even a single counterpoint I made to your previous post. You were so embarrassed by me handing your hat to you in regards to your (Winnie The) Pooh argument, that you were thankfully relieved when the moderator split this post away from the Introduce Yourself thread, lest you suffer the indignity of the new entrants to the Serif forums reading your antediluvian post. And yet you return here, to offer me your Sir and your 2 cents of paltry riposte, which is more to be pitied than despised. How about some serious counterpoints Jim. I remember so many know-it-alls in 1985, who uttered words about Microsoft and Apple, in a manner similar to your previous post here about Serif, so excuse me for holding you to account with forthright arguments and rationale, however much you dislike them. And as far as your American cringe comments go, get off your high horse! You're obviously not a Californian when you say things like that now are you, lmao! I'm guessing you live in a fly-over state somewhere, or perhaps in the British back-blocks of Boston Massachusetts?!? And remember, freedom of speech at its essence includes the right of reply, which you should fundamentally understand as the American you purport to be, so try not to be too hurt by my latest reply to you, why not instead stick to the substance of the points at hand? As the substance of my posts here demonstrate, I prefer rationale debate, rather than irrational baiting, but there has to be a bit of sport in this for the both of us Jim